Want to build a media company that’s purpose-driven, from the ground up? Ask Benny.
Benny Luo — an internet marketer, a media entrepreneur, and the Founder of web publications NextShark.com, NewMediaRockstars.com, and TheOtherAsians.com. Founded in 2013, Benny Luo, an immigrant Chinese-American, saw a need for curating content for young, ambitious adults who want to make money. He built NextShark, an online publication targeting Asian Youth, with just $3,000 of his own money. Four years later, the site has a full-time staff of 12 and brings in nearly three million monthly unique visitors. His expertise lies in social media marketing & strategy, search engine marketing, and pay-per-click advertising.
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Below is our edited transcript of Benny Luo’s talk, “A Conditional Acceptance,” at the Imagine Talks Annual Symposium.
Francis Kong: We are just learning and growing constantly, and I am so, so honored here to have you join us today for a great interview. And we all know you as the founder and CEO of NextShark, which is such a powerful publication, especially for the Asian-American community. Before we just start off, I just would love to ask, can you tell us a bit about yourself? How you got started getting to do what you do now, which is still popular to the Asian-American community?
Getting to know Benny Luo, media entrepreneur and CEO of NextShark.com
Benny Luo: There’s a lot to touch on, I think that, well, first of all, I’m honored to be here. I appreciate you having me here as a guest and definitely a big fan of the work that you’ve done in the platform you’ve built here, Francis. You know, as far as mine, I mean, it’s been very, very organic for me. I think I would look at it as— I grew up in the Bay Area to Chinese immigrant parents who came here in the 1980s, you know, was definitely raised in a very conservative Asian values growing up like, you know, seeking, you know, comfortability as like a doctor or a lawyer or more careers in a more like sustainable and all that good stuff.
And obviously, academics were heavily stressed during those years and but I think I look at it as I’ve always felt that I had a big affinity to Asian-American identity. I had a very small period in my life where I was like, “Oh, man, I wish I was white because I feel like, you know, those kids get treated better— I don’t get that sort of stuff at all or whatever or—” you know, just those, like, negative thoughts, right?
But I quickly realize, I mean, entering middle school and up to towards high school that, you know, to be really proud of my heritage. And I kind of went to that whole, like, Asian pride phase growing up. And, you know, that kind of stemmed from, you know, me facing a lot of instances of bullying and racism. Just, you know, whether it’s at school or whether it’s in public.
The concept of NextShark
I mean, you know, some of the things I remember I were at middle school, I think I was 11 years old and I went to the movie theaters with some friends and I was just randomly passing by like an old couple. I thought it was a really nice old couple in my head. And I remember distinctively as right when I walked past them, the old man basically yelled out, like, “F--ing China,” and unprovoked completely, and I was just [inaudible]. It was just really, really, really weird for me, you know, or, in school, like I would face— at lunch time, you know, people would call me, like, “dog eater,” “Chinatown,” and, you know, just using like, you know, racial slurs towards me and everything.
So it was definitely a challenge kind of growing up in that environment. But I did have like a really good upbringing and very, very grateful for that. But as far as, like, in the context of NextShark, I mean, I think that I said this before: I never really imagined that it would grow to something like this because we were a very different company when we first started. And essentially NextShark is —it started off as an online publication focused on business and success for millennials.
Becoming a media entrepreneur with the rise of NextShark
And “Shark” kind of comes from my experience in all my poker, and the fact that when I read up on some of my favorite entrepreneurs, like the late Tony Hsieh, you know, he said, like, “You know, poker had such a big impact on his outlook and how he makes decisions and everything.” And I really heavily relate to that. So “Shark” kind of comes from that.
And then “Next” kind of signifies, you know, next-generation and the youth or what have you, but about like two years in, I noticed that a lot of our Asian-centered culture was doing well, and I noticed that every time we feature like an Asian face—successful Asian American leader—we saw an uptick in engagement and it seemed like there was a lot of support, you rallied around that. It’s interesting because I —you know, even from a technical standpoint and I just found this out like maybe a very, very recently, too—is that for Asian-Americans online, we love to consume stuff like on, you know, stuff about self-development or content that really like, you know, I guess builds you up as a person or skills.
So I kind of aligned with that but naturally, because of that content, we were just building a strong Asian-American following. And over time, when we started making more of a pivot, we’re it’s like, “Oh, you know, why don’t we feature, like, more Asian faces, more Asian business owners,” right?
Taking pride in Asian-American community as a media entrepreneur
And people seem to like that a lot and naturally, as we started evolving, we started getting encouraged by our readers to, like, cover other outlets because they said that, “Hey, you know, you guys are really the one of the only outlets that are featuring Asian-American faces and painting them in this way and really highlighting the trailblazers in our community. You guys should, you know, maybe start covering politics, maybe more news, more breaking news, more sports.” And I was a little apprehensive at first because...business was in that sort of bubble that I was really looking towards.
But I decided to give it a shot and next thing you know, I mean, you know, for me, I also kind of had a passion for it too as well, I mean, if that’s really what you’re interested in, I mean, why not?
I mean, it wasn’t something that I ever— I did something that I never thought that I could build a business off of, to be honest. I always thought of it as if I were to dive into something like this, it would be like, you know, when I’m more extremely, extremely successful and, you know, and I can kind of go back and get back. And so the fact that I can build a sustainable company, you know, little to no funding, no loans or anything while also being a positive destination for a community, I’m very grateful for that.
A media entrepreneur can highlight Asian-American voices
Francis Kong: That’s wonderful. That’s such an awesome story and yeah, what you’ve talked about going back to when you were young and for me, both my kids —I’m from— I was raised in the south in Mississippi, and I definitely faced my share of racism. And it still going on, right?—you —there’s—that is, I think, one of the core meccas of it and it still blows my mind that people experience that here in the Bay Area and that just, for me, that’s so— that’s just so hard for me to wrap my mind around because it’s such, you know, this is supposed to be a place where there’s melting, right? And acceptance that, yeah, —
Benny Luo: I think over the years, I mean, it’s a—I think that Asian-American community has certainly grown tremendously, especially in the last 5, 10 years.
I would think that it’s much more diverse then. But I mean, you know, we’ve seen it all, there’s always that sort of I don’t want to say diamond in the rock, obviously, like there’s also always that one person or — it’s just everywhere.
Behind the scenes of meeting with Andrew Yang, a presidential candidate
Francis Kong: Yeah. Well, again, thank you for giving us a voice on your amazing platform and one of your— one of the most famous incidents that goes around—it’s almost as rumors, legends and you — you work with and had a connection with the president candidate, Andrew Yang. So please tell us —give us behind the scenes story of what happened to that? I feel like that’s something we could talk about and either know some bits about it now but I want to hear directly from you. What exactly happened with that little connection there?
How Benny shifted from computer marketing to successful media entrepreneur
Benny Luo: Yeah.
I mean, I think that the context with this is that I went to UC Irvine and I knew very early on, especially after high school, that I don’t think academics was really going to be my strong suit—I mean, don’t get me wrong, I still pride as much as I can in classes— I still struggle, you know, tremendously. But, you know, I still try, but in the back of my mind, I knew that I needed some sort of a backup plan, if anything.
And I had this notion of if I —of I need to get a head start amongst like all my peers, I —if I can’t really win in academics and or set myself apart, I can maybe set myself apart by having as much experience as possible. And so literally, right when I got into my freshman year, I already had a job at Dell—the computer company. I was basically —my job was as a campus rep was to help like market Dell products on campus.
Wow. And from there, you know, as a full-time student, I was also trying to rack up as much work hours as I could, too. And the thing being was not only that I want the experience, I also didn’t want to depend on parents really for more financial stability. I wanted to be as independent as fast as possible really. So I started taking multiple jobs, I mean, there was only a certain amount—amount of hours that Dell could give me at the time.
How to go to school and make money at the same time
So I started working at the UCI computer store to where I would help deliver computers to teachers and staff members all around campus.
I used to drive this big anteater truck, which is our, you know, our mascot, which is pretty funny. And the hilarious part about that, too, is like I had just gotten my license at the time— at that time, too. And so it was like —so those are like— so it was actually a little nerve-wracking at that time, like driving a big, big truck like that.
But, you know, we got it done and then I ended up —I was really official with my time. I mean, I even found a job where I could make money while attending classes. Essentially, I was a campus note-taker for people that had like disabilities and wasn’t able to, you know...
So it also gave me an outlet to get me to go to class while also making money at the same time. But for me, I just felt that even that I still —it’s —these were still like a small hours like here and there and I really wanted to maximize as much time as I can to get experience. And so I remember browsing through I believe that was the UC Irvine version of the college board where employers can post like job boards and everything.
Applying for a marketing associate position for Manhattan GMAT
And so I looked it up and I saw a position open as a marketing associate for the Manhattan GMAT. So it was basically a East Coast company that that was basically helping—they sold basic online prep courses for the GMAT, they also did in-person courses as well. So basically I applied for it and the funny thing is, I think— if I remember correctly, I think I applied the first time, but I was very irresponsible with like, answering this, you know, with answering emails all the time because I was so busy and I wasn’t really—I just was at college at the time.
And this is actually the first time I talked about this, because I remember this finally is that I applied for it first and then I had gotten an interview—they said that they were interested in setting up an interview for me to provide a time that I was available. And I remember it took me like —I think I didn’t respond until a week later just because I don’t know why that happened.
A job application for the same position in the company
But I started a week later and the message that I got was like, oh, you know, and we apologize— “I apologize but a big portion of this work is going to have to be, you know, regular communication and you have to communicate back on time. And so we’re going to stop the interview process here. Wish you the best of luck in your endeavors.” I was like, “Oh, no.” But then the quarter after I remember, I think that I applied for it again, not knowing that it was the same company that basically rejected me for being so unprofessional, you know.
But next thing you know, I got an interview but this time, you know, I was much more polished, I responded immediately. And on the day of the interview, they were like, “OK, so our CEO, our CEO, Andrew Yang, is going to be the one interviewing you.” And my first thought was, “Wow, I’m going to be interviewed by the CEO.” My second thought was, “Wow, he’s also —he’s Asian.”
This might be a lot more chill, I mean, you know, part of the same crew or whatever, you know, but it was really far from the case. I remember right when I got on the phone, I mean, he was very professional, very stern, and he took it—it caught me off guard in a sense, where it was like, I don’t know why I expected it easier interview just because, you know, it’s like, “Oh, my God, there’s an Asian guy or whatever.”
Finding a job: what you need to know
But anyway, yeah, he was just a very stern— started asking me really hard questions that I was not prepared for. And mind you, I mean, I wasn’t sophisticated enough to really understand that, “Hey, if you want a —if you want a job and especially a certain level, you want to set yourself apart, you’ve got to be doing research on the company you’re applying for. You’ve got to be ready for [it and] you can’t just show up for an interview.”
And suddenly, you know, everything’s all groovy and you can talk about how good you are, right?
But, I remember I couldn’t answer the basic questions that he asked me and at one point I think I got so frustrated to the point where he was like he kind of blurted out, you know, “Benny, do you know what the high score on the GMAT is?” And then I think I remember something like that was the stupidest answer ever, I think I was like, “Oh, I think it’s the same score as the SATs or something.” I was like, way, way, way off.
But, you know, but basically let out a loud sigh and then he was like, “Do you do any research on my company prior to this interview?” And he already knew the answer before I could even get a reply, to be honest.
But I remember for the next 15, 20 minutes, he was kind of lecturing me on how to better prepare for interviews, and basically, I can’t think to just show up to something and expect to do a good job—it requires preparation, I need to show that I’ve done proper research on what exactly am I applying for, not just kind of blindly shooting [in] the dark, right?
Gaining employment
And so he gave me a lot of great advice and I think at the time, I didn’t appreciate it as much as I should have just because I was young and still like, you know, with a certain mindset, but needless to say, I still thank them, for what—for all of this advice. And I did take a lot of mental notes and I just thank them and I didn’t expect to hear from him ever again. But low and behold, like a week later, I got an offer letter directly from himself.
Francis Kong: Wow.
Benny Luo: So, I was really surprised, but I hopped on board and I was very glad that I did a great job with them And I was very happy also to know that he gave me one of my first LinkedIn recommendations, too. And it’s still up there, actually go to my LinkedIn profile and it’s always— because while he was campaigning, I was like, “Wow, if this guy really does somehow win. I mean, I could say that I got a LinkedIn recommendation from the President of the United States.”
I would have been— that would have been cool. But you know what, this is cool enough. I mean, just to see a former boss like that—we go back a long way—just to rise up and be such a figure for our community and even like— and even a potential good candidate for the country, too.
Preparation is indispensable
Francis Kong: Well, thanks for sharing the story. That’s so funny and yet so inspiring and I think it’s hilarious that you applied for it again, not remembering it was the first one, this time you were also better prepared for it. So it went— it went in such a different trajectory because of that little bit of preparation and polish you had the second time around.
Benny Luo: You know, it’s funny because my—looking back is you— it’s interesting when I observe myself, I don’t really —it’s a very big negative of mine. It’s like I tend to just act before I really think of thinking through it. But somehow it kind of works out for me in a sense and I think that it’s definitely important to prepare and have preparation. But for me, like for some reason, I’m just that go, go, go type of guy.
I mean, I think that the best analogy is if you want to —if we all got in a room and it’s like, “Hey, OK, I want to build a house?” All right, cool. So you handle this, you handle that and OK, Francis, you propped up, you know, the blueprint, and then I’ll be on the side already laying down bricks. You know, that’s pretty much it, I think that’s the best analogy for me, right? And there are some positives to that but —and for some parts it’s definitely worked out for me but definitely learning more and more to think better and to plan better before I act.
Sometimes you gotta run before you can walk
Francis Kong: I love that. That reminds me of —there’s a little bit of geeky side of myself that one scene from Iron Man when Tony Stark is testing his armor for the first time and he —and his famous quote was, “Sometimes you learn how to run before you can walk.”
Benny Luo: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly, exactly. So it’s —I love that analogy, too. I love that same tip, but yeah.
Francis Kong: Yeah, yeah. I could see that spirit right inside you. It’s like, “You know what? Let’s do it.”
Benny Luo: What’s the worst that could happen?
Francis Kong: Yeah, and a lot of times you learn so much from that, right? I love that. So speaking about your work with the Asian-American community and also working— having such a great start and your philosophy of just going out there and getting things done.
I would love to ask your opinion on this: what do you think 2020 has taught us, especially from the Asian community perspective, they’ve taught us lessons about where we are and connections of other communities, and what are things that we really can take to heart going forward from this point onward now?
Films featuring Asian Americans abound
Benny Luo: That’s a very good question, I think that it’s wrapped around with— there’s so many angles that I could come up with that answer and I think that in terms of the general grand scheme of things, I mean, I think that as Asian-Americans, we learned a lot this year and we kind of we’re in this trajectory of seeing, you know, a lot of people in our community like rising out, whether it’s like Andrew Yang and his presidency to, you know, fresh off the boat to the success of Crazy Rich Asians and a legion of other Asian-American focused films and media that started doing really well.
And we were just really high upward trajectory and suddenly when Coronavirus hit, it was almost as if we went, like, so backwards and I think that —and I think I speak for a lot of people when —I think I’ve heard this multiple times, is like, “Wow, I’ve never seen—” as an Asian-American, I’ve never seen so much like so much racism targeting to my community, you know, in a long and a long time where I’ve never seen it in general, right?
And I think that in a sense, like the bad is that we kind of realize—and I think John Cho put this really well in the L.A. Times—is that our sort of American-ness is a little bit: it’s kind of conditional. And if there’s any sort of major thing that kind of happens suddenly, like, you know, we could be seen as the enemy again, right? And I’m not trying to compare this to, like, you know, back when the whole attack on Pearl Harbor happened and the Japanese internment and everything.
Supporting other Asian-Americans and media entrepreneurs
But there’s precedents, you know, to be had— to show, like, you know, the seriousness of what’s happening right now in this country, I think. And I think that it’s showing us that we still have a long way to go as a society but I also believe that in a sense, the silver lining is that I see many, many Asian-Americans more interested in the heritage more than ever. If you kind of notice, a lot of Asian-Americans, they come from still first-generation families.
So they haven’t really been here for that long, right? And a lot of our— a lot of us are not really aware of Asian-American history in general. I mean, you know, the fact that there were the Chinese-Americans built the railroads to all the little things that happened that defined what America looks like today. I mean, the person that was responsible for birthright citizenship, the right that if you’re born here, you’re a citizen of this country was because of a Chinese-American, right?
And I think that if anything, in a sense, I looked at it as, we’re learning a lot more, we’re really like discovering our identity a little bit deeper and I think we’re kind of looking at each other also going like, “How do we better support each other?” And in a sea of all this, like chaos and negativity, I see, like so many people in our community, you know, rising up as front-line workers, as donors, as influencers who are using the platforms for good to really contribute to back to their community.
All for one, one for all
I see this not only just within our community, too, but also our role in helping other minorities —on minority communities, typically, right? During the whole during the Black Lives Matter movement, right? A lot of— a lot of Asian-Americans kind of stood up side by side—side by side with them to kind of support what they were doing.
And I think that that’s really, really powerful and, I think it kind of shows that while there are a lot of challenges to be had, we still kind of have each other. You know, and as long as we do our best to kind of stick together and contribute back in the best way possible, then we will continue to move forward.
Francis Kong: I love that. Thank you for —thank you for actually touching that part of message and you’re right: it’s this whole sense of conditionality, right? That was a real wake-up call for me as well, too.
We’re running toward the end of the interview here and I just want to close by asking you, if there’s one message you want to share, especially going forward with the next generation, because I think you’re about to step into a brand new role of being a parent now, which I think is so wonderful and beautiful.
What message would you want the next generation, not just for Asian-Americans, but also, let’s say, from a global village that you hope we learn from this year going forward for next generations?
It’s not about what it is, it’s about what it can become
Benny Luo: Wow, that’s a —it’s a hard one, I’m trying to think, I mean. Oh, I would say, you know, be happy, find— everybody has a purpose of being here, and I think that part of self-discovery and part of life is to really put yourself out there and any sort of situation that you—that you think you want to experiment with and sometimes, you’re going to fail.
And sometimes, like, you’re going to have good outcomes or bad outcomes. But you know what? The results of that, no matter what that result looks like, it’s going to contribute to you growing down the line. And I think that when you kind of have that sort of notion in your mind, it kind of helps like bring your mind back to equilibrium.
You can achieve success by giving back and helping those who follow you
And I think that it helps bring more clarity to who you are as a person and also to and also — while success is great and being noticed for your success is great — giving back and being able to find ways to contribute to the people after you. That’s really the most important yet.
Francis Kong: Well, yes. Thank you. I love that, especially the last one of being reconnected back into your environment and community. As always, Benny, it’s such a pleasure — always so energizing and inspiring to talk with you.
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