Steffie Harner is a former California Bay Area resident and one of our dear friends and mentees. A Tokyo-based freelance model and junior software developer, Steffie tells us her journey from the health tech scene in San Francisco to founding Startup Lady Japan to becoming a full-time technical mentor and software engineer for Code Chrysalis, a full-stack Javascript bootcamp in Tokyo. She also shares how she became a cyberpunk fashion icon.
Steffie's mission is to create empathetic, engineering leaders, and empower women to pursue more technical careers.
Watch the Imagine Talks Podcast interview on YouTube below — or check her out on our podcast page, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify. Photo use permission provided by Steffie Harner.
Find out more about Steffie:
- Instagram: @steffieharner
- Steffie Harner’s portfolio & bookings website (steffieharner.com)
- Startup Lady Japan (www.startuplady.org)
- Code Chrysalis, Tokyo Coding Bootcamp (www.codechrysalis.io)
Kicking off with Steffie Harner
Francis Kong: Hey there everyone, and welcome to Imagine Talks podcast: achieving success, social impact, and of course, overcoming obstacles. I'm one of your hosts here, Francis Kong.
Tammy Tran: And I'm another one of your hosts, I'm Tammy Tran. For today's episode, we will be introducing Steffie Harner,
Tammy Tran:...co-founder and Creative Director at Startup Lady, Japan. We will be talking about her journey from founding Startup Lady Japan, to becoming a full time technical mentor, and software engineer for a full-stack JavaScript boot camp in Tokyo.
Steven Chan: And I'm Steven Chan. Amongst Steffie's many talents,
Steven Chan: ... Steffie is a cyberpunk fashion icon, whose work has been featured on Instagram. Steffie's mission is to create empathetic, engineering leaders, and empower women to pursue more technical careers now without delay. Let's welcome Steffie.
Steffie Harner:Hello, hello!
Steffie Harner:I'm really, really happy to be here today!
Steffie Harner:You’re in San Francisco, right?
Tammy Tran: Yes, we are in San Francisco. And we're so excited to have you join us on our podcast, Steffie. It's been a while, at least for the two of us. It's been like two years since I've seen you in Japan.
Steffie Harner:Since we've been in Tokyo. That's a good time.
Tammy Tran: Yeah.
Steffie Harner:Feels like ages ago!
Tammy Tran: Yeah.
Steffie Harner:Feels like ages ago!
Tammy Tran: It has, and in the few years since, I haven't seen you or talked to you. You've been quite busy!
Tammy Tran: Right?
Tammy Tran: Yeah, completely different from when we both worked at a media company!
Tammy Tran: The last time I spoke to you, you went to Japan to, like, have a change of scenery. So how did it lead to you co-founding Startup Lady Japan?
Steffie Harner:Man, I don't even know.
Steffie Harner:When I think about like, "how did I get here?" but when I do think about it. Yeah, just everything...
Steffie Harner:Like, everything happens for a reason, and one thing led to another. But I mean, when I look, I just like to step back and look at what happened, it's just a domino effect, but it wasn't obvious that we would get to this point of me being a software engineer in Tokyo.
Steffie Harner moving from Silicon Valley to Tokyo
Steffie Harner:Yeah. So where do I begin, I guess?
Steffie Harner:So yes, I'm Steffie.
Steffie Harner: I moved to Japan four years ago, 2016 summer, and it was kind of my childhood dream to live in Japan. That's why I chose Japan. I had left San Francisco after working...
Steffie Harner:...with you, Tammy, at a media company, but also just working in Silicon Valley in the health tech industry, just because I wanted a break from tech.
Steffie Harner:Like, I thought I was done with it, to be honest.
Steffie Harner: A little bit of it was a sour taste in my mouth from the Silicon Valley tech "bro culture," but more on that later. But I guess there's irony in that now...
Steffie Harner:...because I'm a software engineer in Tokyo, is that I'm deeper into tech now than I ever was in San Francisco! So yeah, I guess I could run away from the place, but I guess my calling will still catch up to me!
Steffie Harner:So when I moved to Tokyo. It was, like, a bit of an impulsive move, like going with my gut feeling. And I had no job lined up, no concrete plans.
Steffie Harner:But moving to Tokyo is really a pivotal event that has led to me feeling so fulfilled with my life.
Steffie Harner:The first two years I was just kind of enjoying Japan. I was studying Japanese and...
Steffie Harner:...exploring Tokyo.
Steffie Harner:Just recording everything I saw, and like, posting it online. Because like, just living here makes me happy. I did a bit of — and still do ..
Steffie Harner: — modeling, voice acting, singing, kind of just all over the place, entertainment, and I think through that content creation...
Steffie Harner:...I was approached by one of a mutual connection that actually I know because of Edge Interns and Francis. Her name is Amy Zhou from Berkeley, and she was a roommate with Jessica, which we all know from Kaiser internships at Kaiser...
Steffie Harner:...and she asked me if I wanted to help out with a video project.
Steffie Harner:...that would promote female entrepreneurs in Japan. And I was like, “Yeah, I'm all about female empowerment and social impact.” And I was like, “anything I can do to help, I am happy to.” So that's where
Steffie Harner:The inception of startup ladies started, like, it was just us interviewing some of the few female entrepreneurs that we knew it in Tokyo and just telling their story and putting them on YouTube.
Steffie Harner: i didn't really imagine that this little video project would with four girls just meeting up in a cafe in Shinjuku every week would...
Steffie Harner:...turn Startup Lady to what it is now: this thriving community of female freelancers and entrepreneurs that just meet every month...
Steffie Harner:...to empower each other and to...
Steffie Harner:...like, get more people comfortable with the idea of being a female leader.
Steffie Harner:That was really how that started.
Tammy Tran: That sounds good. How many members. Do you guys have?
Steffie Harner:Um,
Steffie Harner:Yeah. So right now, I'd say like our community of freelancers and entrepreneurs. We're about 1000 active members.
Tammy Tran: Oh wow.
On becoming a female software engineer in a male-dominated field
Steffie Harner:It's kind of crazy. I've met so many people, so many amazing women and men of this initiative.
Steffie Harner:Actually, the reason why I'm a software engineer now is because of one of the amazing ladies I've met through this initiative.
Tammy Tran: Oh really, what's her name?
Steffie Harner:So yeah, okay... (laughs)
Tammy Tran: Tell me about it!
Steffie Harner:So one of the bigger events that we held up in our first year of operation was Female Entrepreneur Night, and we were looking for female CEOs, CTOs...
Steffie Harner:...just leaders in Japan that would tell their story. We had a lineup, about eight presenters.
Steffie Harner:Her name was Yun Fat and she's a CTO of a coding boot camp called Chrysalis Tokyo.
Steffie Harner:And I just remember...
Steffie Harner:She was our final speaker and I just remember like I reached out to her and asked if she could talk and I thought she was cool, but I was completely blown away with her story. I just thought like...
Steffie Harner:She was just talking about her background from a non technical career in finance and like how she took the leap into studying software engineering, and — I find myself to be a really open minded person —
Steffie Harner:...but I just, I guess I had this unconscious bias of what a software engineer was and seeing her in front of me just telling her story,
Steffie Harner:...being a software engineer and now a CTO of a company just kind of blew my mind and I thought like, “Damn, that is so badass like I want to try to like I want to see if, like, if I could be a software engineer too,” and that's really how it started.
Steffie Harner:In 2018, yeah.
Tammy Tran: Oh, you started in 2018 as a software engineer?
Steffie Harner: I started studying in 2018, yeah
Steffie Harner:Casually, not like full time. I was like, “Okay, I'm going to take a few online courses like Codecademy and see what this is all about. What about for loops and variables?” And I had no idea what I was getting into, to be honest.
Tammy Tran:(laughs)
Steffie Harner:Once I started getting the hang of it...
Steffie Harner:... and getting familiar with the syntax...
Steffie Harner: I was just, I decided, like at that time, that you know, I would actually give my all. I'm really going to do this.
Steffie Harner:And I took like an intro to coding class. And I found that I really loved it.
Steffie Harner: I felt like this was for me like it came naturally. I was putting up a lot of hours and work into it, but I was meeting all the requirements and exceeding them and I felt that, yeah, this is what I need to do.
Steffie Harner:And I really, I think, what did it do last year? Last year in January, I said, “Okay, I'm going to really go full time into this.”
Steffie Harner:And so I really, I took like six months to kind of cut all of my responsibilities. I cut down my hours for work and I stopped taking like entertainment gigs, just to study software.
Steffie Harner:Yeah, it took a while. It took a lot of time and effort, but then I got into code chrysalis.
Steffie Harner:After four failed attempts of doing an in person technical interview, but I did it!
Tech culture in Tokyo vs Silicon Valley
Francis Kong: So you mentioned earlier, I'm curious about this. Can you compare your experience with, as you call it, the programmers of Silicon Valley culture? And what's tech culture like and say, Tokyo or Japan in general, but definitely Tokyo.
Francis Kong: Is it different in their attitudes? Is it similar? Because Japan does have the culture of being traditionally for can be chauvinistic in some areas right
Francis Kong: And you also have that in some of the Silicon Valley cultures too. But is there a difference? Does it permeate through both cultures, or is it different in depth bigger subculture between this the program chauvinistic attitudes and Silicon Valley in Japan, since you've lived in both?
Steffie Harner:yeah, I guess.
Steffie Harner:That's a really good question.
Steffie Harner:And I would say that the tech scene here in Tokyo is really different. I mean, and I just like in terms of size, it's just a very, very small community here in comparison to Silicon Valley, which is like the hub of tech, right?
Steffie Harner:You kind of feel like a fly on the wall there, like everyone works in tech, but in Tokyo, it's, it's very different.
Steffie Harner:Through Startup Lady I really discovered that because like when you host these tech events or when you host entrepreneur events, you attract those kinds of people, and you end up seeing the same people.
Steffie Harner:With every event, like if I go to another Tech event., it’s like the same people that attend Startup Lady events and I just realized, well this scene is really small. And I think that's when I realized like,..
Steffie Harner:If you put yourself out there and this this world like you are making an impact. And that, for me, was really empowering just realizing, like...
Steffie Harner:...Yeah, if I decide I want to do something here. And like put myself out there like other people will feel it and other people, it'll influence other people.
Steffie Harner:In terms of being, like, a tech bro culture, I think that it does exist here, but it's just not as strong,
Steffie Harner:...Because it's such a smaller community and tech is so new, right. It's just kind of in its infancy here. People think of Tokyo as very innovative and, like, high tech, but it's actually quite, quite the opposite.
Steffie Harner:In terms of hardware, yes, it's like the leader in hardware, but not software. Actually, I found out at this tech online Tech Meetup last week that the IT minister of Japan [Naokazu Takemoto] is this 79-year-old man.
Steffie Harner:He is also the president of the hanko [personal seals] lobbyist group. And if you don't know what a hanko is in Japan,
Steffie Harner:...instead of signing things as your signature, you need a traditional kanji-like Chinese character stamp.
Steffie Harner:For it to be official like it's very, very like it needs to be an actual stamp. It's not digital at all. And so I think that really, it makes sense. When I found that, I was like, “everything makes sense now,” like, in terms of IT.
Steffie Harner:It's really archaic. Fax machines are still, like, a norm here. Like, working remote
Steffie Harner:...was a really, really foreign concept that people were pretty much struggling with,
Steffie Harner:Right now during this COVID pandemic,
Steffie Harner: ...Where everyone is suggested to stay at home, it's, it's kind of intense.
Francis Kong:That's really interesting because maybe it is a sub-industry, but most of the...
Francis Kong:...world's most innovative and influential video games, which is largely software driven, comes out of Japan. In fact, I would say 90% of influence.
Francis Kong: In the past, at least that came from Japan in terms of video game consoles. But then the software drives pretty much 90% of the profit margins,
Francis Kong:...And now I'm hearing that the software is dated in Japan really?
Steffie Harner:Yeah, I guess, I guess that's that's a good point. You bring up because the game industry is just like a subset of tech or software here. That's why I would actually group gaming more into the entertainment part of Japan,
Steffie Harner:which I think Japan does very well with as well, like in terms of like animation 3D graphics and that type of stuff like storyboarding
Steffie Harner:So less on the software as a service side, but more like software as entertainment. Japan is definitely a leader in that, but in terms of like what we know in Silicon Valley as, like,
Steffie Harner:...tech as a service, and like applications that have utility, other than entertainment, it is very, very behind.
Francis Kong: So you're saying that is it a cultural thing that they box in all that tech software development into entertainment video game consoles and
Francis Kong:...they don't want to see it spread into other non entertainment software as a service type of applications? Or is it more cultural or political?
Francis Kong: I can’t imagine it being a technical limitation.
Steffie Harner:It's not a technical invitation. Yeah, it's definitely a cultural thing. It just has to do with the structure of Japanese companies like the hierarchy that exists.
Steffie Harner:...in traditional companies, because I think one thing that Japan does very well is a tradition and like practicing it.
Steffie Harner:Yeah, just practicing it and I think in many ways, Japan is stuck in that old way of thinking and just like following traditional practices and it's really hard for them to be innovative.
Steffie Harner:When they’re just so used to it.
Steven Chan:Yeah, and you know, one thing I wanted to catch onto was something that you said, which was you are there to make an impact. And in a way, you are with Startup Lady Japan. You're breaking some of the bro-grammer culture, in a way. What would you say is the impact that you are making?
Steffie Harner:Yeah, that's, that's the thing. Okay, so I guess we're, we're really stuck in our old ways
Steffie Harner:..and the people that are currently in leader positions in Japanese companies and in government, like I'm not necessarily so sure that that can change. You know, I think that's going to stay the same.
Steffie Harner:But like with the new generation of young women and men that are coming into these leadership positions, like if they have a different mentality, they will lead the change. And so I think doing social impact initiatives like Startup Lady.
Steffie Harner:...just bringing inspirational people in front of the young men and women that have a different way of thinking and have an open mind to breaking...
Steffie Harner:...some traditions that in ways, hold, hold us back from innovation and once they become leaders are inspired to become leaders, they can lead that change. And I do feel that
Steffie Harner:...something so simple as holding like a monthly event where someone else just tells her story and talks about how they, they, you know,
Steffie Harner:...did something that was difficult and like persevered through it will inspire someone else to say like, hey, I can do that too.
Steffie Harner: I can make an impact as well.
Steven Chan:Totally. And I can definitely see the parallels you're blazing that trail in Tokyo. Likewise, you know we were here for our mutual co host and friend, Francis, who has done something similar with Imagine Talks.
Steven Chan: And Miss Asian Global, and allowing and empowering people to talk about their story. In your case, you've made multiple leaps.
How “Imposter syndrome” comes up for Steffie Harner
Steven Chan: you traveled halfway across the world. And you said that you gave up your job in entertainment. And in order to dive into learning coding. What were some of the challenges that you faced internally? Because that took a lot of courage to do all these leaps.
Steffie Harner:Yeah, and so..
Steffie Harner:Thank you for the question. Um, I definitely felt a lot of...
Steffie Harner: I don't know there's times where, when I was studying it wasn't sinking in. Like it was it was definitely not easy. Like I put in time. I put it like I had to do a lot of frustration, a lot of imposter syndrome.
Steffie Harner:Just spending hours staring at my screen, wondering why this code isn't working. And like, just repeating the same line like hundreds of times.
Steffie Harner: I was like, I'm wasting my time right now. I could like doing something that I'm good at. I like making an impact in that way. But it's, uh, yeah. So just dealing with them. The fear of missing out.
Steffie Harner:Trying to take in like the opportunity cost, I was losing
Steffie Harner:...from spending time studying.
Steffie Harner:It's really, it's like something you realize like, you can't do it. You really can't like, I can't. I wouldn't be able to take all these entertainment jobs like these modeling gigs or influencer gigs and dedicate this time to coding. I had the choose one.
Steffie Harner: I really had to listen to, like the feeling that I had in my gut and said, no, like, I just have to persevere and figure this out. And once I do, I'll get the next step. And so it's kind of a humbling experience in a way.
Steffie Harner:You just, you kind of have to pinhole yourself.
Steffie Harner:Set your eyes on a specific goal and anything that doesn't contribute to that goal, it can wait. It can wait because once you get there, then you can, you know, pick it back up. I think so.
Steffie Harner: I didn't. What I gave up, when I took a break from it all, my social life,...
Steffie Harner:...and from doing the things that I love, entertainment, I wasn't saying goodbye for good. I was saying “goodbye for now” and save it for later. And it really helped me move along.
Steven Chan: So, where are you at, in terms of your imposter syndrome? And for those who don't know what imposter syndrome is, could you recap what imposter syndrome is?
Steffie Harner:So imposter syndrome for those you don't know it's just like the feeling that you're, you're not good enough.
Steffie Harner:Just the feeling that you'll never be good enough and like you shouldn't even try, right. That you're just like a fake.
Steffie Harner:Like, I think this is a very common feeling inside tech and software engineering, in particular, just like dealing with the fact that there's so many things you don't know
Steffie Harner:And you can't possibly know all the things that have to do with software engineering. Yes?
Francis Kong: A question here. You said, and a follow-up with Steve's question here. What is imposter syndrome? He said, feeling like a fake. So if you're going to say that I would like to actually know from your definition, what, how would you define what a fake is and what is authentic, then?
Steffie Harner:What is a fake and what is authentic?
Francis Kong:Yeah, I feel like that needs to be defined before you can actually define what imposter syndrome is.
Steffie Harner:Yeah, I guess.
Steffie Harner:Yeah, right. So, um,
Steffie Harner:What is a fake? I guess in terms of software engineering
Steffie Harner:Right now I am six months into my career as a software engineer, a professional and it's kind of crazy to believe because I only decided I wanted to do this full time like about a year ago.
Steffie Harner: A year and a half ago.
Steffie Harner:It's just grappling with the, the fact that, like, okay, yeah, I'm not like the best. I am not the best software engineer that ever was. But hey, like I'm able to write some code and build an application. Isn't that the definition of a software engineer?
Steffie Harner:Yeah, it's like you feel like, because you're not the best, you're fake.
Steffie Harner:But that's not true. You know, it's not true. It's not about being the best.
Steffie Harner:It's about being better than you were before you know and like it's understanding that there are different levels of software engineering
Steffie Harner:There's different levels of expertise and like kind of having the humility to look at yourself and say, like, “I just started, you know, like, I can't give myself a hard time...”
Steffie Harner:“... and think I can build software, just like a senior engineer with like 10 to 15 years of experience, like I have to realistically look at myself and say, like, “I've only been studying this for a year and a half.”
Steffie Harner:“This is what I can do. And it's, it's pretty cool already.”
Steffie Harner:“and it's more than anyone else without that year and a half of studying experience without that six months of professional student experience can do,”
Steffie Harner:and just like recognizing that, “Hey this is good enough. I'm not a fake, I am being authentic.”
Francis Kong: Oh, just, just to clarify them and it seems like this is a question and a comment for a lot of people out there.
Francis Kong: Are you saying that imposter syndrome stems from people, comparing themselves with what they consider the best, and since they're not the best or at least comparable to the best out there, they are not real?
Francis Kong: So they get confused with what is real and what is the best and what is fake. They get those concepts confused. And they don't see the the gradation, but just the absolute of the two extremities.
Steffie Harner:Exactly, exactly, Francis.
Francis Kong:Well done.
Steffie Harner: I just want to let people know like it's okay if you're not, it doesn't matter if you're better than this person or that person.
Steffie Harner:It's more about being better than you were yesterday, you know, it's about your personal growth and having a growth mindset,
Steffie Harner:...is having a good attitude and dealing with imposter syndrome and just accepting that — you know — you're not going to be the number one.
Steffie Harner:You don't have to be. You just have to be better than you were before. And I think that really helps you get to your goals.
Steffie Harner:and I see a lot of people kind of making excuses against themselves.
Steffie Harner:Like, they say that they want to be. They want to be a software engineer or they want to be a model like this is also something in the modeling world too.
Steffie Harner:But they're like, oh, I'm not good enough. I'm not pretty enough. I'm not smart enough to do this and like that.
Steffie Harner:That attitude — that mentality — prevents you from getting to that goal.
Steffie Harner:But if you kind of tell yourself like, “No, I'm just a beginner, I'm just learning how to do it. I'm going to keep trying. Even though, like, I'm going to mess up over and over again.”
Steffie Harner:But it's because you keep trying. You learn through those mistakes and those failures. And that's what is going to help you get to your goal.
Does “Imposter Syndrome” differ in women, versus men?
Steven Chan: So this is interesting because you mentioned that this happens in the modeling world. And there's this pervasive feeling that you're not good enough that you're not the best.
Steven Chan: This is a question for all of us. And Francis, Tammy, Steffie, and Steffie, you could go first. But do you think that this is common in women versus men?
Steffie Harner:Yes! I can say it definitely.
Steven Chan: Why is that?
Steffie Harner:Yeah, you know what, like I do, I do think that girls tend to compare themselves to others.
Steffie Harner:And there's a lot of fear that comes from just looking around you and seeing like the girls you see in media, and saying like,
Steffie Harner:“I can't do what they're doing. I'm not like I'm not good enough and X, Y, and Z.” And it prevents them from even trying. That's one of the things that made me really sad and something that with Startup Lady, I wanted to fight.
Steffie Harner: I wanted to bring girls [together].
Steffie Harner:We're here in this together. We're not trying to be like a competition. It's like, we should lift each other up.
Steffie Harner:One of the missions in Startup Lady is really to empower women. And we do that basically by saying like,
Steffie Harner:“Look at your peers and look at people that have accomplished great things and don't see them as a competition. Like, see them as inspiration for you to try and do that.”
Steffie Harner:It really helps when these women are speaking, to talk about the struggles that they've faced while getting to their goals.
Steffie Harner:Because it’s so much harder than it looks. You know there's there's so much story that isn’t told, like on social media. And, like, just like upfront like it needs to...
Steffie Harner:These women, when they open up and say, like, “I failed hundreds of times before I made it to this place in my life.” That is what actually gets girls to be like, “Okay, I just need to try.”
Steffie Harner:“I can do it too.”
Steffie Harner:“And I am going to fail.” That really removes the fear that many have.
Steffie Harner:...”helps women deal with imposter syndrome.”
Francis Kong:Tammy.
Tammy Tran: Yeah, I agree with Steffie too.
Tammy Tran: Women definitely would experience more imposter syndrome than men would. I think it's also due to the societal, like, impressions on what women should be doing what their roles are.
Tammy Tran: What Steffie’s doing, if she's breaking into the tech world and to being a software engineer, typically you would think that that's a man's job to do.
Tammy Tran: So for Steffie to do this Startup Lady Japan, I think it's very inspirational for both men and women, but mainly women to know that it's okay to break social norms.
Tammy Tran: And for them to pursue what they want to do. And I'm very much inspired by Steffie doing this in Japan. I think it's awesome that she's started this. How long has this been like two years of Steffie that you did?
Steffie Harner:Yeah. 2018.
Tammy Tran: And you have like 1000 members now?
Steffie Harner:That's pretty crazy.
Tammy Tran: Yeah, so I think that's just mind blowing. The fact that you even started this in Japan and the space where like Japan, isn't that big in terms of software engineering,
Tammy Tran: ... And like startup, as opposed to hardware, like you said,
Tammy Tran: Yeah.
Francis Kong:Steven? You’re the psychiatrist among us.
Steven Chan: I was going to point to you!
Francis Kong: I got to you first! I can go. Do you want me to go? Do you want to go?
Steven Chan: I'll say a few things about it, but I would love to hear your thoughts, particularly since you know, this is your brainchild in terms of...
Steven Chan:...how people overcome obstacles. I do think that women face a lot of pressure from society to conform one way.
Steven Chan: I also think that minorities may face that too, when they're facing a new culture or they're not in and say they immigrated to the country. There's some pressure to sort of assimilate and to just conform.
Steven Chan: And fit in. And I think that's a powerful human need to want to fit in, but to break those barriers takes a lot of courage, takes a lot of resilience.
Steven Chan: We heard from Steffie there's last self doubt that can come up. And I think that that's something that...
Steven Chan: ...a lot of us face. I think, though, men may try to mask it. They may not admit to it. And instead, it comes out in other emotions such as anger or denial even but that's what I've seen as far
Steven Chan: And especially in masculine men, right?
Steffie Harner:I've heard a quote before
And it's like, yeah.
Steffie Harner:Boys blame the world. Girls blame themselves. And I think that's very true in many ways. And I think we should all aspire.
Steffie Harner:Not to be, you know, little girls and boys, but to be men and women and just kind of own up to it. “It's not your fault. It's not your fault, as a person. It's not the world's fault,” you know, it's more like
Steffie Harner:being realistic with how the world is and being realistic about what you're able to accomplish and just moving forward with that, but I do think that quote rings true in many ways.
Francis Kong:Tammy had a comment.
Tammy Tran: I did, I agree with Steffie, but my comment was that it's even based on what you said, Steve, it's even more so, based off of Asian culture, traditions.
Tammy Tran:There's more conformity and an expectation that is set for people to follow.
Tammy Tran: and then if you don't and you try to embrace social norms, you're either looked upon
Tammy Tran: As shameful or something else, like something that's a disgrace and that's pretty much hard to deal with. And nobody wants to be on that end of it.
Francis Kong:Great.
Francis Kong: So my quick take on this is that, yeah, absolutely. I think I think both men and women deal with
Francis Kong:“imposter syndrome” equally. However, the problem is that men — as Steven and all of you guys alluded to — have a lot of
Francis Kong:...the only word I can think of is “ego,” that they have to play with.
Francis Kong: A lot of the chest thumping and I think this is a lot of is cultural in terms of how it’s developed. And when you have a predominantly male dominant society — like in many Asian cultures — that permeates into the entire family culture, so that ego, that self protection defense mechanism,
Francis Kong:that permeates to the entire family, not just to one individual person now.
Francis Kong:Okay. Let me back up.
Francis Kong:Female do have imposter syndrome, but because they don't necessarily have...
Francis Kong:...that type, that level of ego to deal with, they're more open and more able to confront it more in a healthy way, even talk to people about and share it more easily. Although, that doesn't mean it isn't, isn't it easier for them to have to deal with themselves.
Francis Kong: Men feel like they have to chest thump and have to prove themselves, even if they know
Francis Kong:...or perceive that they are not that type of person that they are trying to be.
Francis Kong: And how many people actually try to deal with it: if you can't raise yourself to feel good about yourself, you will bring other people down, so that you don't feel bad about yourself.
Francis Kong: So instead of trying to address the problem of your inadequacy, you will now down talk other people.
Francis Kong: Who are in a position where you perceive them that you want to be, or are you hope to be, or should be, but you now— just like Steffie said— blame the world.
Francis Kong: And say “That person is fake. I hate that person. He or she,” — mostly he, because they're used to competing as another male —
Francis Kong: “.. Is a disgrace,” or whatever you want to call it. So male are doubly hampered by this emotional constipation on top of the fact that they can't understand how to see the gradation of progress as opposed to absolutes of beginners and professionals.
Francis Kong:That's just my two cents.
Steven Chan:Well, you know what Steffie had said, the hope is that
Steven Chan: ...a lot of this is like how boys, little boys and little girls would behave, versus men. Whatever you mentioned, it was beautiful. I need to look back at the closed captions to get that quote; you said a way better than then I certainly just did!
Next steps for Steffie
Francis Kong: A quick question for Steffie here, if I can. Um, so what are your goals?
Francis Kong:What are your goals for Japan or more for tech or do you have any plans to connect back to Silicon Valley? The plan basically is you are planning on living in Japan for the rest of your life? Where do you want to go back and forth?
Francis Kong:Like more invested in Japan? Or more invested into tech as a whole?
Francis Kong:Both globally? But I'm just curious what you actually see your journey leading to now.
Steffie Harner:Yes and no. In terms of asking me if I'm, if I'm planning to stay in Japan forever? Like, I don't think so. But definitely for now I don't. I don't feel like it's my time to leave Tokyo.
Steffie Harner:Yeah, there's still so much I can do. But in terms of impact, I don't think that I want to limit myself to Tokyo or Japan.
Steffie Harner: I think, now, like with the dawn of social media and like the Internet, like if you put things online, it can, it, it breaks barriers. It crosses borders.
Steffie Harner:The energy that you put out online can impact people in different countries and different cultures. And I do see that Startup Lady, I mean like...
Steffie Harner:I'm talking from Tokyo to San Francisco. So I hope that I can make an impact in the San Francisco community as well and let them know that these things exist in Tokyo.
Steffie Harner:And if they wanted to, you know, contribute, they could totally just reach out and send me a message or something.
Steffie Harner:So no, I don't think that we should limit ourselves to like a specific place in country. Just like try as much as possible to make an impact to anyone, you can reach
Steffie Harner:In terms of my personal goals and where I see myself in the next couple of years, is I'm just going to keep like doing what I'm doing now. Like, still learning what I need to know to become a better software engineer.
Steffie Harner:Incorporating it into just more of my cyberpunk content creation and influencer work, too, because I do feel like that that has the potential to create impact and bring awareness,
Steffie Harner:...to software engineers from non-traditional backgrounds. And I will use the technology that is given to me — like social media — as a tool to impact other people and inspire girls to do the same.
Francis Kong: One quick question. Because of what you said about, you know, Japan, being a little bit behind with types of software. Then how does Rakuten play into this whole thing?
Steffie Harner:(laughs)
Francis Kong:Like how do you, how do you
Francis Kong:...explain that [Rakuten] phenomenon with the general culture you've kind of described to us?
Steffie Harner:Oh, I don't know what you know about Rakuten, but we might have an interesting discussion now.
Steffie Harner:So I never — I don't work with Rakuten. Code Chrysalis, we do, like a rapid API event with Rakuten and stuff, but I know a couple of people who work for Rakuten, they have very interesting perspectives.
Francis Kong: Do you want to, maybe, describe to the audience what Rakuten is?
Steffie Harner:Okay Rakuten! For those who do not know. Okay, so I'm, I'm kind of stuck in my little Japan bubbles. Everyone knows what Rakuten is. But if you don't, it's basically the Amazon of Japan.
Steffie Harner:And if you take a look at their website they do have like a US, an American version..
Steffie Harner:... where you can buy online e-commerce stuff. But, uh, it's kind of archaic in comparison to the episode, like the user the UX is a little dated, everything's kind of cluttered. And there's a lot of Japanese culture in terms of just chaotic advertisements that are on there.
Steffie Harner: I think that Rakuten’s a really good example of a Japanese company that is trying to adopt more Silicon Valley values and practices.
Steffie Harner:Questionable if they are actually picking up the values! (laughs)
Steffie Harner:But they were trying! So I think something that happened recently I think a couple years back, is that Rakuten announced that they wanted to be an English speaking company in the offices.
Steffie Harner:And they did that because they think that Japanese, the Japanese language in itself because of
Steffie Harner:Just the nuances that it brings in hierarchy is preventing them from adopting a more agile and tech innovative mindset.
Steffie Harner:And that is going questionably well. From what I hear from my friends who are working at Rakuten, it's still kind of half-English half-Japanese
Steffie Harner:And it's still very much stuck in their old practices. But I do think they just, just the fact that leadership has adopted that mindset and, like, is wanting to change in that way is a good sign.
Steffie Harner:I'd say that it's not enough at this point. And we need more Japanese companies to continue to implement those types of things and just keep trying to improve. You know, it's not a failure. It's just, it's a good start. Yeah.
Tammy Tran: That was actually really interesting that you said about Rakuten, changing hierarchy, and culture.
Tammy Tran: What I wanted to ask you is more about back to when you talk about your cyberpunk social media persona. Can you expand more on that?
Tammy Tran: I see you dressed up as one, and you have like a cyberpunk background.
Tammy Tran: So go ahead, can you please tell us more about your cyberpunk personas?
Steffie Harner: Okay. So yeah, if you do follow me on Instagram. I do. I do use that as an outlet of expression just like the things that I love from my past:
Steffie Harner:influences from video games, anime and manga, that I love and still consume back in the day, and now I've kinded of worked that into my personality.
Steffie Harner:This is kind of an interesting get up for y'all, but like I actually dress like this almost every day. This is how I go to work.
Tammy Tran:Really?
Steffie Harner:Yeah. And this is why I love the company I work for right now because they totally accept me for the person. I am kind of going against the grain and colorful and they just, you know, they just treat me like a normal person.
Tammy Tran:That’s awesome, based on what you said about how Japan is actually!
Steffie Harner: I worked for a very open minded company. I wouldn't say that there's a very traditional Japanese company.
Steffie Harner:But anyway, it may seem kind of like not related to my work as a co-founder of Startup Lady, and a software engineer,
Steffie Harner:But I, I believe that it's very much intertwined. I do believe in this. We are approaching a society that is becoming more ingrained with technology.
Steffie Harner:You know, our cell phones and our computers are really just extensions of us now where we rely so much on applications.
Steffie Harner:Just to manage our day to day in terms of calendar and to do lists and like meetings like this. Like how would this be possible without the tech we have today? And instead of just kind of fighting it, we need to embrace it for all its glory and its benefits.
Steffie Harner:But for also the negative consequences that come up with it. If people don't know what's cyberpunk is, it's kind of this dystopian concept ...
Steffie Harner:As we become a society that our lives focus more on technology and we've created technology in order to help us as, like, help us thrive in this world as humans in many ways it does take from us.
Steffie Harner:There's a quote saying inside the cyberpunk Community: “High Tech, Low Life.” And that's kind of it describes just like this dystopian chaos that comes with becoming so reliant on technology and like the negative impacts that it has on society and communities.
Francis Kong:Very cool, but just one little comment:
Francis Kong:When you interview for Miss Asian Global, wear this.
Steffie Harner:Okay! (laughs)
Francis Kong: And make sure you have that background back there.
Francis Kong:That will knock them dead. They're gonna love that. They're gonna be like that, "We don't need to interview her, just say yes right now.”
Steffie Harner: I will continue to be me, unshamelessly.
Francis Kong:Yeah. What you’ve got exactly going right now? Do that for the Miss Asian Global interview.
Steffie Harner:Okay. (laughs)
Steven Chan:What's Miss Asian Global, for those who don't know what that is?
Francis Kong: I'm one of the directors there. So Miss Asian Global is the longest running Asian American pageant. 35 years this year. It's been around pretty much since the 1980s.
Francis Kong: I think it was designed to give a voice to Asian American communities for young women, but it's really evolved into a professional development organization,
Francis Kong: ... Now really focusing a lot of women empowerment, social impact and entrepreneurship, which it does very strongly with the sister operation Imagine Talks, which is essentially,
Francis Kong:...I guess it's almost inspired by a TED Talk type of an event, but really we're strongly focused on Asian American women.
Francis Kong: But of course we bring in lots of speakers outside just Asian American women population: anyone who can actually share knowledge.
Francis Kong:Steffie, we're hoping to invite to be the speakers next year. Steven has been a speaker himself. Tammy has has basically helped a lot in the background with lots of the media and a podcast gathering.
Francis Kong: I just show up there for food, that's basically what I always say.
Steven Chan:That's what he always says!
Francis Kong:Everyone else they do the real work. I'm really much just there to eat whatever food people bring and that's usually how I live.
Tammy Tran: Oh, Francis. That is such a lie! You organize everything.
Francis Kong: I do organize who brings in the food.
Steffie Harner:Priorities! Priorities!
Steven Chan:Definitely parallels with Francis and Steffie. And Steffie's breaking so much ground over in Tokyo, getting a huge community of folks together. It's remarkable.
Francis Kong: You should let them know Steffie, if you're going to be going to be speaking at Imagine Talks with us. You need to let your entire community know that you are going to be representing during that time.
Steffie Harner:Yeah, I'm happy to. I'm really yeah I'm honored that I was asked, Steven, to be part of this now.
Steffie Harner’s portfolio on Instagram
Francis Kong: i think there's some cool photos that I saw there that look familiar to me. And what would this be a good time to, like, segue into some of those?
Steven Chan:Sure. Well, Tammy, Steffie. What do you think?
Steffie Harner:Oh my gosh.
Tammy Tran: Yeah, I think it's a great time to segue into showing us Steffie’s Instagram.
Francis Kong: And a website too!
Tammy Tran: And her website. Yeah, definitely. So, like, take a look at her.
Francis Kong:Should we do a screen share?
Steven Chan:Here. Yeah, we're looking at this on my desktop. But this is something that everyone can view and Steffie, maybe you could take, take, take us on a tour.
Francis Kong: Oh, here goes! Awesome!
Steffie Harner: A tour of my Instagram? Well, I guess if you go to instagram.com/SteffieHarner , you can see my little expression outlet.
Steffie Harner:As you can see I have, I do post a lot of content where I am the model of these creative concepts that I've collaborated with many...
Steffie Harner:...post processors and photographers that really highlights just what I would say is “cyber punk neon shot.”
Steffie Harner:It’s so much more than bright colors. There's so much symbolism that go behind this, but I do enjoy it as an art in itself, but as you can see, like many of the posts that I have,
Steffie Harner:It features...
Steffie Harner:...makeup you don't see on people every day. Or like myself as an android. Like, totally embracing the tech, that is that is becoming more ingrained and, soon, humanity.
Steffie Harner:Yeah, I'm embarrassed that we're looking at my Instagram!
Steven Chan: This is remarkable. I think you told us a little bit about...
Steven Chan:...how this particular portrait came to be.
Francis Kong:Yeah, like how many people were involved in this one picture here?
Steffie Harner:Yeah, so this is a collaboration between three creators, including myself; we have a photographer's name is
Steffie Harner:Guillermo ALARCON and he goes by FUTURE_VIZION. And our good friend @wilmer.lens. This is shot in Shinjuku Kabuki-chō (新宿区 歌舞伎町), which is also my background here. It's the red light district of Tokyo.
Steffie Harner:It's one of the most — well, for lack of a better word — ghetto.
Steffie Harner:One of the most unsafe places in Japan.
Francis Kong:Which is perfect. For cyberpunk
Steffie Harner:Yeah, it's, it has like one of the highest crime rates in all of Tokyo. If you tell a Japanese person like you went to Kabuki-chō (歌舞伎町), they would be like, why?
Steffie Harner:Be careful!
Francis Kong: The highest crime rate for Japan is probably something like Sunnyvale for us.
Steffie Harner:It’s pretty safe! I want to just say that I used to live...
Steffie Harner:...right on the edge of the Kabuki-chō (歌舞伎町) and Koreatown, which is also the hood.
Francis Kong:Tokyo hood. (laughs)
Steffie Harner: I have never felt threatened at all walking alone at night with my cell phone out
Steffie Harner:Yeah, it is. Comparatively, to America, relatively safe America.
Steffie Harner:It is a bit wild in terms of the Japanese standards, though.
Steffie Harner:Yeah, so this is this is one of this is this picture that you're looking at right there. This is before the post processing done by Wilmer
Steffie Harner: I love Instagram as a platform for meeting other creatives because these two individuals. Amazing, amazing artists.
Steffie Harner: i only met through Instagram just through putting my content out there and they reached out, say, “Hey, we have this concept, you want to collaborate?” And you really can make art, just by putting yourself out there, meeting other people.
Francis Kong:Steven, can we have a quick look at her.
Steven Chan: Oh, this is a video actually!
Steffie Harner:This is a behind-the-scenes from one of the concept shoots!
Francis Kong:That video there. I love that.
Steven Chan: Is it all right if we check it out?
Steffie Harner:Oh, please. Yeah.
Steffie Harner:But yeah, this is just the behind the scenes. So this is like an amazing studio in Shinjuku, and this is one of my, my friends. Calum and we've, we've done a film together.
Steffie Harner:This is also just like a fun collaborative shoot that we did, but we're just supposed to be this relentless duo that is fighting for justice.
Francis Kong: Is there a message that you're —or an underlying tone? That you’re trying to shoot for?
Francis Kong: In your work?
Steffie Harner: Yeah, I mean —
Steffie Harner: I see myself as a cyberpunk content creator representing certain values.
Steffie Harner:And some of those are just not being afraid to go against the grain.
Steffie Harner:Not being afraid to be a rebel and a leader in in a world that is kind of oppressive,
Steffie Harner:...that is filled with like the Chaos and technology and just like putting yourself out there, regardless of what other people think.
Steffie Harner: I know like my expression, the way I represent myself isn't everyone's cup of tea but, and that's fine. Like, I'm okay with that. I don't need to make everyone happy. It's, I think, as long as I am doing my best to represent myself...
Steffie Harner:...and represent myself and empower the people that I'm trying to empower without hurting anybody. I think I'm doing okay. It's more about just being yourself and making the best out of a chaotic world.
Francis Kong:Yeah. I don't know — Steven, you got the link to your website, Steven?
Steven Chan: No, what's the website?
Francis Kong:Yeah, she sent a link to a website, that you might have missed on the Facebook Messengershe. She has some pictures on the website. It's not on her Instagram.
Steffie Harner:I'm in the process. It's in the process of development. So it's still hosted on that.
Francis Kong:Otherwise, I can see whether or not I can try to send it to you.
Steffie Harner:This is my in-development portfolio for my modeling entertainment deal with Gatsby, I highly recommend this technology. Y'all should try it!
Steffie Harner:It makes lightning fast websites.
Steffie Harner:But yeah, so I have some cyberpunk portraits and this is some of my favorites. Yeah.
Francis Kong:Yeah, these are really nice.
Steffie Harner:These top two—the photographer here. He's a creative director at Sony PlayStation in Britain. He's amazing. Nigel Freeman. Please check him out.
Francis Kong:This one I like; it’s really cool.
Steffie Harner:Also in Kabuki-chō!
Francis Kong:Yeah, tell us about each picture as we go.
Steffie Harner:Yeah, this is from a film called “Spiritual Machines.”
Steffie Harner:Created and directed by FUTURE_VIZION.
Steffie Harner:On a superficial level, my photos are a lot of neon, a lot of just kind of aggressive female characters.
Steffie Harner:That I fit into that role here, but I do, I do love this.
Steffie Harner:...expression of art in terms of just
Steffie Harner:...entertaining and just showing women like “Hey, you can do this too, like, if you want to be a software engineer and be a model you can. You just have to try.”
Francis Kong: Who are your heroes? Software models?
Steffie Harner:Who are my heroes, oh man. So yeah, this is honestly like, I am one of the many.
Steffie Harner: I say many but there's a few. I'm not the only software engineer model. There are other software engineer models out there. And I do think that they all deserve to be interviewed on a podcast. So other girls can see that like you can do these things.
Steffie Harner:Yeah.
Tammy Tran: Well that picture is amazing. That's like, four of you?
Francis Kong: Did you clone yourself?
Francis Kong: I want to know how to do that.
Francis Kong:I've been trying to, but getting really bad results these past few years.
Steffie Harner:Is it post-processing. Nowadays, where we all have access to free software, if you, if you can imagine something in your head, you can make it happen in a digital form.
Steffie Harner:so this is all like a post. It's taken with a very nice camera. It's taken a lot of work in the makeup and the costuming but also like a lot of work in Photoshop. So I like it. Yeah, you can do anything if you imagine it.
Tammy Tran: But these are all really nice photos. I liked how they all turned out.
Steffie Harner:Thank you. Yeah, these are some of my favorites. These ones are shot by @akiraharigae, please check them out.
Francis Kong:What’s the two red marks on your cheek?
Francis Kong: Is it like war injuries?
Steffie Harner:It's inspired by Kitsune mask.
Steffie Harner:It’s in the Japanese culture in a lot of mud cities.
Steffie Harner:Kitsune in Japanese means Fox.
Steffie Harner:Yeah, so I'm ever present just like a mischievous mischievous character here.
Francis Kong:This is cool. I love this one. Where's this shot in front of?
Steffie Harner:This is it a Chinatown in Yokohama, which is about like 40 minutes south of Tokyo, the character that I play here is inspired by an anime called Furikuri
Steffie Harner:One of the main characters is Haruko. She's rebellious alien that is seeking seeking divinity and God through technology. I just love that character. She wields a guitar and she uses the guitar to like, kind of find God.
Steffie Harner: I know you have to watch the anime. It's really confusing if I explain it.
Steffie Harner:She hits people on the head and then machines come out of, out of their injuries and one of them might be God.
Steven Chan:Can't do this in Sunnyvale.
Francis Kong: I don’t think you can do this in Chinatown in San Francisco!
Steven Chan: This is the guitar right here.
Francis Kong: So cool.
Francis Kong:This your film again?
Steffie Harner:This is from "Spiritual Machines”.
Francis Kong:Nice. Yeah. What “spiritual machines” a play off of?
Steffie Harner:It’s its own thing, but I'm sure that it finds inspiration from that. Yeah, these are also clips from the film as well.
Steven Chan: So what is the longest film that you've created?
Steffie Harner:Yeah. Well, first, it's not just me that creates it. It's like a team.
Steven Chan:Okay, okay, well!
Steffie Harner:Then it's probably... Yeah, this one, this is my, my first film where I was the main lead. It was really nerve wracking! I gotta be like the main character in a film like that's that's so nervous! I had lines in Japanese too.
Steffie Harner:Definitely, definitely have to practice a lot
Steven Chan: And this is something that we can stream or rent?
Steffie Harner:That currently is production. So I will let y'all know when it is
Steffie Harner:finally released
Steven Chan: That is super cool.
Francis Kong:Very Lara Croft. I love that one.
Steffie Harner:Okay. Yeah. Thank you.
Steffie Harner:Thank you for plugging my Instagram. Please give me a "Follow” if you enjoy this content.
Steffie Harner: I am going to keep creating.
Steven Chan: That is so cool. Well, Tammy, would you like to
Francis Kong:Close out
Tammy Tran: I'm like, it's amazing that you done all of that,
Tammy Tran: while doing Software Engineering while pursuing it. And then now you're actually in that position, and then also founding Startup Lady, Japan, I do not know how you balance everything.
Tammy Tran:You're simply amazing Steffie.
Tammy Tran: But saying that, thank you so much for
Tammy Tran: Being on our podcast and talking to us.
Tammy Tran:Before we end the episode, please let us know—please let the audience know how to connect with you and where they can find out more information about you.
Steffie Harner:Well, I just want to say thank you so much, Steven. Thank you. Francis. Thank you . Tammy, for having me on Imagine podcast. That was really helpful that you even asked me to be in this.
Steffie Harner:I'm really happy. You gave me a platform to share a little bit about my confusing story!
Steffie Harner:But if you would like to connect with me, you can find me on Instagram. You can find me on YouTube. Find me on Twitter. My name is Steffie Harner across all platforms.
Steffie Harner: So yeah, please feel free to send me a message or the mail I do, I do all eventually respond. Once I get around to everything. Yeah. All the notifications.
Steven Chan: It's awesome. And thanks so much, Steffie. Francis, Tammy.
Steven Chan: And for everyone who's in our audience can learn more about Steffie again, @SteffieHarner.
Steven Chan:That’s S. T. E. F. F. I. E. H A R N E R on Instagram and social media platforms.
If you'd like to learn more about imagine Talks, you can go to imaginetalks.org, Edge Interns at edgeinterns.com, and myself. Steven Chan at mentalpowerhacks.com and Tammy Tran as well. Thank you so much, everybody.
Steffie Harner:Thanks. Thank you!
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