Let’s say you’re the quiet type. The kind of person who likes to keep to yourself. The introvert. What do you do when you’ve got to go to meetings? To parties? To work events? That can seem scary! Can quiet be a superpower?
Our guest, Jill Chang, has written just that in her new book!
Jill Chang talks about the definition of introversion, combatting negative stereotypes of introversion and turning them into strengths, working in “introverted” and “extroverted” cultures, and advice for introverts during the pandemic and beyond.
Jill Chang works for Give2Asia, an international nonprofit organization with operations in more than 20 countries. Her book Quiet Is a Superpower, a book that helps introverts to shine in the workplace, was a #1 bestseller in Taiwan and on the Top 10 list for 20 weeks. She is often referred to as “Taiwan's Susan Cain.”
Jill has over fifteen years of experience working in cross-disciplinary marketing across sectors, including working with Major League Baseball, the US government, long-term medical care providers, international businesses, and international public welfare strategy consultants. She is a graduate of leadership programs at Harvard University and Tsinghua University in Beijing.
Jill is a complete introvert (although most people find that hard to believe) who likes to get lost in a book with some music playing in the background and a cup of tea by her side. She is based in Taipei, Taiwan, with her family, and she regularly travels across the world to make a global impact in both philanthropy and in helping introverts in their career and leadership development.
To learn more about Jill Chang:
- Instagram: @InJillChang
- LinkedIn: Jill Chang 張瀞仁
- Facebook: Jill Chang
- Website: InJill.com
- LinkedIn Group: Introvert Cafe
For inquiries, event and speaking requests, please contact: jill@injill.com
Purchase Jill Chang’s books:
- Amazon: Quiet Is a Superpower: The Secret Strengths of Introverts in the Workplace
- Barnes & Noble: Quiet Is a Superpower: The Secret Strengths of Introverts in the Workplace
Introducing Jill Chang
Francis Kong: Welcome to Imagine Talks podcast: Achieving Success, Social Impact and Overcoming Obstacles. I am Francis Kong.
Tammy Tran: And I’m Tammy Tran. For today’s episode, we will be introducing Jill Chang—best selling author of Quiet Is A Superpower. Jill has 15 years of international experience in diverse industries, including sports, state government, and nonprofits. She oversees a team spread across twenty-three countries, she has delivered over 200 public speeches in the past two years alone, she is described as not needing a script and the Wonder Woman who makes things happen bare-handed.
Steven Chan: And I’m Steven Chan. A bit more on Jill: she entered the sports industry as a professional sports agent at the age of 26 and successfully signed five major league contracts for her clients within 18 months. When she worked for the U.S. state government, she was in charge of procuring and training projects between the United States and Asia. She is now devoted to international philanthropy.
Michelle Sahai: I’m Michelle Sahai. Jill is known as a complete introvert who likes to get lost in books. She is based in Taipei, Taiwan, with her family. And Jill regularly travels across the world to make a global impact in both philanthropy and in helping introverts and their career and leadership development. Now without delay, let’s welcome Jill Chang.
Jill Chang: Hi, everyone, thank you so much for having me.
Tammy Tran: Jill, thank you for joining us. Our first question for you is because you wrote your book, Quiet Is A Superpower, can you define for us what introversion is?
What is Introversion?
Jill Chang: Yes, absolutely. So if you Google introversion and definition, you will see things like the tendency to be more concerned with one’s inner thoughts and feelings rather than the external world. It seems very vague. So technically, I would say if you charge from being alone, that means you’re more introverted. And if you charge yourself by interacting with the outside world, interacting with people, you would go to concerts or clubs. That means you are more extroverted, that’s how I define introversion.
Tammy Tran: Great, I love it. I love how you’re just talking about energy and how that relates to introversion and extroversion.
Steven Chan: Thank you so much, Jill, for that. You know, you’ve written about this topic in Quiet Is A Superpower. What have you learned about yourself from writing about introversion?
The Different Types of Introverts
Jill Chang: I grew up being the quiet one in the group and everyone said I was introverted, so I thought that was it. But as I read more and get to know about introverts, I felt there are talkative introverts, there are loud introverts, there are showy introverts. So then I started to take the tags off from me instead of saying, “Hey, that’s just who I am. And—I —that’s what introverts do.” I started to—yeah, maybe I can do that too because that person is an introvert too and she did that, so maybe I can try too.”
My horizon definitely expanded a lot from writing the book and also from the feedback of the readers. And I consider myself lucky because the book became an international bestseller. So I have a chance to receive feedback from numerous readers across the world and fellow authors, coaches, and consultants from various countries. I would never imagine that I would know so many introverts and learn from them in so many amazing ways. So I think writing—the writing the book— it’s like the start of the journey and this amazing journey still continues.
Just like what I’m—just like I’m here today, I’m talking to you. And hopefully, I’ll get some feedback from your audience, too. That’s all [a] very amazing part of the journey and it’s still going on. So I’m super happy about that.
Steven Chan: Yes, you know, so many people have learned from you, you truly have given a voice to this topic of introversion. So thank you, Jill. Tammy?
How to Turn Stereotypes of Introverts Into Strength
Tammy Tran: Yes, thank you, Jill. I love that. I love the fact that you’ve been to many different countries. You were able to meet many different types of introverts. That leads me to my next question of can you list the top three most common negative stereotypes about introverts and how would you change them into strength?
Jill Chang: Yeah, so I think there are definitely a lot of stereotypes about introverts. Some are positive and some are negative. I think there’s three most common negative stereotypes are: one, introverts are lone wolves. They don’t like working with others, they are not good team players. And second is that introverts are less ambitious, less aggressive, and less motivated. And the third one may be introverts are slow, they don’t have much to say, especially in the workplace.
So regarding to all these three stereotypes, what I’m saying [is] they are stereotypes because not all of them are true. And there are ways for introverts to turn them into strengths or to work with these qualities to be our strengths. So, for example, people think that introverts are not good players. It’s not actually not true, because as far as I know, introverts...value people around them. They care less about themselves. They don’t like to be the center of attention.
The First Stereotype About Introverts
So they are actually very amazing team players. They will put the team goals in front of—above themselves and above everything else. When you work with introverts, you will find that whatever assignment is given to them, they will complete it, in the deadline, like by the time you want them to, and they will show that they have the quality and have the competence of completing that task. So instead of—maybe they’re quieter, maybe they don’t talk much in the group, but they get things done. So that’s the first strength of introverts.
The Second Stereotype About Introverts
Jill Chang: And the second stereotype—that introverts are less ambitious, less aggressive, or less motivated. I think it’s more about the allocation of our energies and prioritizing. So I would always describe introverts in energy like a laser light. It’s not like sunshine that would scatter all around. It’s very focused. So our energy is very valuable and with that very focused—focused and valuable energy—we can not do a lot of things at the same time simultaneously.
For example, I cannot take 50 online classes simultaneously, but for the three classes that I take, I do it very well. So people would think that, “Ugh. They are taking 30—30, 40, 50 classes and only taking three.” So you’re less ambitious. But that’s not true because I know what I want and I know my priorities. So I focus all my efforts and energies on those three classes. And that’s part of my strategy because I know what I’m good at and I know that’s what I want.
The Third Stereotype About Introverts
Jill Chang: And for the third stereotype, that introverts are slower and we don’t have much to say. I realize that in the workplace, especially in situations like meetings, especially brainstorming meetings, because introverts tend to think things through before expressing it and—or even doing it. So it takes more time for us to think of a perfect solution before we say it, whereas extroverts are more comfortable throwing the half-baked thoughts around and start the conversation, then that’s why people would think introverts are slower in responding or they don’t have much thoughts.
But actually, it’s the opposite because there’s too much on our head that we need to sort things out before releasing it. So my strategy is to—is actually two steps— take meetings, for example: I would prepare in events before the meeting. I would get to get the agenda of the meeting, I will know who else will be on the meeting and what my roles are so that I would get myself fully prepared before going into that meeting room. And since, during the meeting, there’s not much I can do because I—I’m slower.
So I would take advantage of the section that’s following up after the meeting. For example, I would prepare meeting notes, I will even create a spreadsheet of follow-up items just so that people know that I actually care and I am very proactive in following up on those things that was discussed in the meeting, instead of sitting there and doing nothing, because that’s not what I am. I was there sitting and thinking, I wasn’t there sitting and doing nothing.
So yeah. So these are the three common negative stereotypes and my ways of working with these characteristics.
Could countries be categorized as having introverted cultures and others as extroverted cultures?
Tammy Tran: I love it, I absolutely love it. I mean, I’m an introvert myself, I believe all of us are in this podcast. But I struggle with being alone—being called a lone wolf, being less ambitious, and also being slow in my thinking, too. So I love the fact that you are advising us how to change those into strengths. And I’ve definitely learned a lot from you just speaking about these common negative stereotypes. So thank you very much. Steve?
Steven Chan: Yeah, and all of us on this panel—straddle multiple cultures and our co-hosts— yourself. You’ve—you’re leading teams around the world, someone who has had a lot of international experience working with global teams. Do you think that certain countries could be categorized as having introverted cultures and others as extroverted cultures?
Jill Chang: Yes, I definitely think so. I actually did a research on this, but there’s not much that can be found. From the book Introvert Power, the author Laurie Fogo categorized some countries such as Iceland, Norway, Denmark, and Finland as ones with introverted culture. And some countries—like US, like Brazil—[have an] extroverted culture. My experiences are mainly in the US and across Asia, and from my own experience, I probably say some countries in Eastern Asia—like Japan, Korea, and China—that are more introverted than others.
Tips: Introverted Cultures vs. Extroverted Cultures
Steven Chan: Yeah, and I would say that it’s interesting how every place has a way of communicating, and a lot of the difficulty, I imagine, that introverts may have is learning how to communicate with those who are not introverts because it may not come as naturally. So as also an introvert myself, I’ve also had to learn how to work with others who have different ways of communication. And so definitely, I appreciate you providing the insight on how different countries have different—and different cultures express themselves, certainly. Tammy?
Tammy Tran: Thank you, Steve. Jill, thank you for telling us more about introverted cultures and extroverted cultures. Which countries are more likely to be extroverted as plus introverted? Can you give us some tips since you’ve worked in these different culture—countries? Can you give some—what are some tips you can give people from introverted cultures who are working with people from extroverted cultures and vice versa?
Jill Chang: Yeah, thank you. So I wanted to step back a little bit and explain what extroverted culture looks like and versus how introverted culture look like, because I realized that not all of us has a lot of international experience and I think that would be beneficial for all of us to learn from people on the different side of the spectrum. So I think in extroverted cultures, they encourage people to be more aggressive, to be more outspoken and expressive, whereas an introvert—introverted culture—is very more solitary reflection and listening.
Introverted and extroverted cultures in commercials
I actually have a very interesting observation from TV commercials. So, for instance, when the company [is] trying to sell drinks to the general public, the US companies would emphasize more on the activeness, whether it’s giving an amazing presentation after having the drink or perform excellently in sports, even the soccer mom drives the kids around with a big smile on her face. That’s how an extroverted culture is trying to sell the drink to the general public, to the customers, whereas in Asia, especially in Eastern Asia, even it’s a drink that’s very high in conveying the commercial are so much quieter.
You will see a person that’s reflecting—enjoying the breeze and even meditate in the commercial and it shows that, “Oh, these drinks can help you to be more— have more power from within.” So that’s very that’s very different. And for people who are working with or who are even managing the people from a different side of the spectrum, I would say being flexible and respectful is the most important. So instead of jumping to conclusions, try to understand more by asking, “Why did you do that?”
Or “Oh, that’s very interesting. How can I better assist you in doing that?” So take myself, for example, I’m super lucky to work in a global team where my introversion is respected. People wouldn’t force me to talk during the meeting—during the meetings. But I’ve also learned a way to express myself with online documents and with meeting notes and with a lot of different ways in written— in written forms. So personally, I like to think things through before saying it, but I’m learning to throw have big thoughts as well.
Introverted teams: How do you work with them?
Jill Chang: So that’s how me—a person from an introverted culture—working in an extroverted culture and vice versa: if you’re from a more extroverted culture and trying to work with a team that’s more introverted or come from the more introverted culture. I think it’s always helpful to slow down and listen and one of my best call—best-introverted author colleague—Jennifer Kahnweiler, made it very specific in her book saying that if you’re an extroverted manager and you’re managing an introverted team, count to five before you say anything or before you interrupt.
And that’s very practical, but that’s the guidelines for—for all the extroverts to work with introverts. That’s to be more slower and to give your team members more flexibility and more space, and also it will probably need more patience when hearing, when waiting for their answers and hearing the best from them, because as soon as you give them time and give them the space, it’s almost guaranteed they will give you a much more better answer than just to force them to respond immediately.
Tammy Tran: I love it. When you told us about the different commercials from extroverted to introverted cultures, it triggered like a memory for me because I was in Japan for a few months and I see the stark difference between the different advertisements. Like you said, it’s a lot calmer and quieter than the US. So I completely get that and I love the tips that you are giving extroverted cultures on how to interact with introverted cultures. That five minutes of a— five seconds, sorry, of breathing time is just— it’s so helpful.
Deep thinkers have a hard time answering half-baked questions
Instead of having somebody keep asking you—bombarding with questions that you’re not prepared for, especially as an introvert. So I love that and I love the— how introverts can interact and extroverted culture. Although, I’m very interested in how you are kind of dealing with throwing half-baked questions, because I know that’s hard as—as deep thinkers, I myself, like I have a bunch of questions and it’s hard for me to sort things out, like in the moment.
So for you to be able to throw half-baked questions like, I admire that because that’s something that I’m struggling with to do.
Steven Chan: Yeah, and, you know, one of the things that I know we’ve enjoyed is just how you’ve been able to spell out a lot of the facts about the differences between introvert and extrovert culture, but also weaving in a lot of your own personal stories, too. You’ve spoken about how you’ve had to face, you know, not so — not so, maybe irate and angry staff members or teammates. Also your stories about how, you know, facing crowds can be draining too.
Jill Chang’s personal experience coming from an introverted culture into an extroverted culture
So you’ve talked a lot about the facts and the figures, right? But what has your own personal experience—any stories that come to mind? The experience has—has it been for you to come from an introverted culture into an extroverted culture. What is your experience been like for that?
Jill Chang: Yeah, so it’s like these two different cultures are—they’re very different, that’s all I can say. So my favorite culture shock actually happened when I was 22 years old, when I first came to the US from Taiwan to have my education in graduate school and, you know, in Taiwan—in school, it’s always lecture-like, we’re just sitting there in the classroom listening—listening to what the teachers say. We try to memorize everything the teacher teaches us and then we try to perform the best during test, and that was it.
But when I went to the US for graduate school, things are totally different. We were asked to do group presentations—every class—It’s group discussions. So the first thing we need to do is grouping. I didn’t know how to do that because I didn’t have any friends there. That was terrifying and even with our homework, like assignments, we need to do critical thinking. And I was like, how can I criticize the others? Because it’s—
Communicating vs. Criticizing
It’s more about communication rather than criticizing. It’s not just—not what I’ve been trained to do so it’s—it’s a huge culture shock for me. And I started to realize, “Oh, maybe that’s how the US education system is helping the students to think and to learn.” So I still remember for my first week, I talked to my professor and I said, “I cannot do this because this is what not what I learned—this is not my way.”
And the professor was so nice; she’s very open-minded. She understands where I came from and she understands—she listened to my story and understand how my training was like. So she’s said, “OK, so now you are trained like this, but this is graduate school, you need to be like this. And from here to there, I’m here to help you. So no pressure, and I understand this is your second language. You’re not a native speaker, so you need to overcome the language barrier.
You also need to come to—the other barriers, including the grouping or including the academic challenges. So I’m here to support you, whatever you need. You just come to me and we can work on this together.”
How introverts function with extroverts in the workplace
Jill Chang: So that’s actually my first my first experience of having two very different cultures. But I needed to adjust myself very quickly to adapt to a different culture into [a] different— totally different system. So I was very lucky to have the professor helping me with that.
But in the workplace, it’s definitely not the case because in the workplace you are pretty much on your own and nobody’s there to really support you. In that way, you’re pretty much needing to demonstrate who you are and what you’re good at in a very short time. But that’s—I think I am very lucky because with that experience in America’s graduate school and with the assistance from a lot of the professors that I learn from, it’s a good— it lays a very good foundation for me to understand the difference of two different cultures.
And going from there, I think— I probably learned it in the hard way, but I think I’m getting there.
The Different Perceptions of Introversion and Extroversion Across Cultures
Steven Chan: Well, there’s just so much to unpack, the differences in cultures that you yourself have to— have had to face. So certainly appreciate the struggles and how you’ve overcome those barriers, too. Tammy?
Tammy Tran: Yeah, and to add to that, like, I’m glad your instructor was very understanding about your situation. And from your experience, do you think there are different perceptions of introversion and extroversion across cultures? For example, in Taiwan and the United States?
Jill Chang: Yeah, I think, yes. Yes. For example, in Taiwan we are—when growing up, I was always told to be— to listen more than talk and to be more attentive to others feelings and thoughts. Whereas in the US I was always encouraged to speak up, to stand up and express yourself, no matter what ideas you have, you’re always right as long as you speak it. So I think those are very different settings.
And actually, in the workplace, the workplace in Taiwan is very westernized because we have—it’s—Taiwan is very small island and we need to do business with the world, so we have a lot of international partners—business partners. So as we are working with our international partners, we learned we learned how to work with them. So it’s becoming more and more westernized in the workplace, but you see from my story, there’s a gap between school and workplace, because in school we are always told to—be listen. But now in the workplace, we are always encouraged to do a presentation to— to do those negotiations and without any help.
“Introversion is still a little bit different from how extroverted culture see introverts.” -Jill Chang
So that’s a huge gap—that’s a huge gap. But I think the way we see introversion is still a little bit different from how extroverted culture see introverts.
For example, in Taiwan, if you don’t talk much but you deliver excellent performance, people would think, “Yeah, that person is excellent.” But in the US, like, how do you express yourself and how you present yourself is part of the performance, right? So it’s a little bit different, like, I feel it’s like in the US, the ratio of how you present yourself is higher than in other introverted cultures. So yeah, I think it’s—yeah.
Tammy Tran: Yeah. I completely agree with you as—as an introvert who is born in America, but also as an Asian, I’ve had both sides since I was little, being told when at least in your own personal family setting—you need to listen, you need be quiet, you need to follow the rules, “don’t talk back to me”— stuff like that. And, like, you need to show like—like your results are what shows me [if] you’re a good person.
And then in—at school, it’s different, you’re told to stay what you think. Same thing in the workplace, like, you’ve been saying, like how you— well, what you say is really how people see you, it’s not all about like your action, your work or your —it’s both. And I agree with you, the ratio between results and like how you present yourself is starkly different. So I love that you pointed that out because it made me think a lot more about that and how I am as an introvert right now. Thank you. Yeah. Steve?
The challenges introverts face when working remotely
Steven Chan: Well, also I, myself, really appreciate the message that you have that introversion can be a superpower. And, you know, I was wondering what kind of advice you’d have for our audience, our listeners. What kind of advice would you have for introverts? We’re talking about COVID-19, the COVID-19 pandemic, and how it’s affected introverts maybe positively or negatively? And then Tammy will follow up with another question about the post-COVID world. So let’s talk about the COVID-19 pandemic: what advice do you have for introverts during this pandemic time?
Jill Chang: Yeah, actually, I’ve been — way before COVID, I’ve been working remotely. It’s been six years for now and I am super comfortable with it because I just don’t like the politics and everything in the office. And I found that’s a perfect way for me, but I also recognize there are introverts that are struggling with the lifestyle with a remote working setting. I—one of the most common challenge that I found from introverts in the COVID era is the Zoom Fatigue, because there are so many calls and interactions are training for introverts online inter— online interactions included.
So that means if you have like six—eight Zoom calls, your day is done, you basically cannot do anything else, right? But that’s how things are during COVID. So I would say, for introverts, I would say— the most important advice, I guess I can share is to block your calendar for yourself. For example, I would block like two hours in the afternoon for myself because my—I’m working with the US, and my mornings are super packed.
Call to action: Block your calendar
But in the afternoon I will try to block two hours—two hours for myself before Asia wakes up and started working. So I make sure that I have two hours to take care of my own things—to get my planning and to get my things done before I interact with the others. And I found that’s very helpful for me to conserve my energy and to allocate my energy. So, yeah, block your calendar.
Tammy Tran: That is very helpful advice, Jill. I will take that as—into consideration for my schedule because I get it, I have Zoom Fatigue, I am also doing school, too, so it’s like all-day work and then school, it’s just—it’s a lot. So I really need to take your advice to block two hours off one of my calendar for myself. And Steve mentioned, I do want to ask you about post-COVID, what your—what would be your advice for post-COVID world?
Do you have any advice for setting boundaries in the workplace or in one’s personal sp—personal life?
Jill Chang: Yes, absolutely. And actually, a lot—an increasing number of readers are asking this because I've noticed that some of the companies are asking their employees whether they want to go back to their office or stay with remote working forever. So people are asking me, “How do I choose?” Or “How do I have a strategy for that?” “How do I decide?”
How do you set boundaries in the workplace?
So I would recommend the audience to start considering three aspects. One is your mental health: “Am I lonely when I’m working from home?” Do I get distracted easily at home?” And “Can I have work-life balance working remotely?” This mental health, I think, is the most important thing.
And then the second aspect is the job performance: “Do I miss the in-person chats in the office?” “How do I communicate?” “Do I communicate well in the remote setting or when will my colleagues forget about me?” So job performance is the second thing you can think of.
And the third is a more long-term career development, such as, “Can I get a promotion in a remote working setting?” Or “Can I become a manager and manage my time virtually”?
So I think mental health, job performances, and career development, these three are the things that you can consider when thinking about whether to stay at home or to go back to office. Of course, there’s a lot of variance for different people, but I think still having that work-life balance and mental— keeping your mental health in a good condition is the most critical part of making that decision.
Tammy Tran: I agree, I completely agree with you. These are great advice. I’ll take them, too. So, Steve?
Steven Chan: Yeah, and I think what we’ll do is we’ll actually— I know we are in the final stages of a podcast episode and we’re thrilled that you’re here with us. We —we have a final question, I think. Michelle or Francis?
How do introverts deal with racial mental stress?
Francis Kong: Thank you for letting me ask this—just one of the questions. This is something that popped in my head as I was listening to all your amazing answers. And you talked about mental health being so important and can be brought up. And Tammy, both Steve brought up this current world of COVID and post-COVID. I have a question to really love to get your point on—part of this COVID world—current COVID and [the] post-COVID world, a lot of things about it and one of them— the topic I want to talk about you is, racism, which has been brought up to the public and internationally, more that we have seen in the last 50 years.
It’s a two-part question. One is, how do you —in your opinion, in your professional experience, how do introverts deal with this type of race—racial mental stress that the whole nation and also the world is facing at this point? And how do extroverts deal with this? And what are—what is the way that we can work together as introverts and extroverts to try to alleviate the stress and hopefully fix these issues that’s been going on for like literally hundreds and hundreds of years?
Jill Chang: Thank you, Francis, I think—thank you so much for bringing this up. I think the way introverts deal with mental stress is a little bit from extroverts, because, as I said, introverts take everything inside the whole world [as happening in] our mind. When you talk to introverts, you probably may not recognize this person is under a high pressure because they just don’t show [it], whereas extroverts, they’re very different, they’re very expressive. Maybe their stress level is like 2 but they will [express it] like 10.
What could be the ways introverts can express themselves?
So it’s very—it’s very different. And for introverts, I always encourage introverts to express some—in some way, you don’t need to talk to people. You don’t need to speak very loudly. But you can, for example, write, you can write a diary, you can interact with people online or join a forum. Those are the ways for you to express yourself and let yourself—let your thoughts out some way, because you need it eventually.
But I totally recognize that introverts and extroverts, they do it different—totally different—in different ways and I think that’s totally fine. The most important thing is that for us to find a way to take care of your mental health and manage your stress level: never, never wait until you’re about to explode because that’s already too late. So let’s be very cautious and be very attentive to your own mental status, that’s the one thing. And the other thing I think is to, like you said, “How do you support each other?”
I think that’s a —that’s a very great question. I— for introverts, the kind of support that we’re seeking is more on the spiritual level. We don’t need people to be there— pat your back and say, “Hey, you’ll be fine.” We don’t know that that works, that helps but it’s not— not that helpful, I would say. The most helpful way I would say just be there and show that you care about them. You listen to them, make no judgment, and just be there with them. I think that’s most important.
The importance of a support system
A lot of the introverts, they [write] to me or they call me because they want somebody to listen, but not somebody who really gives them or give them advice or share any experience: they just want someone to listen. So I think, especially under such a national or global stress, I think it’s very important to support each other just by being there and being—listening and being open-minded to embrace each other in this difficult situation and show that there’s someone there for them to get through with this.
I think that’s the—that sounds very simple, but I do think that’s one of the most critical ways of helping introverts to get through this stress.
Francis Kong: Thank you. Thank you so much, Jill.
Jill Chang: Thank you.
Steven Chan: Well, you know, I know this is the end of our time together. I wanted to say thank you so, so much for joining us, Jill, and thank you for being with us.
Jill Chang: Thank you so much for having me. Such a great pleasure.
Steven Chan: And to our audience, thank you for joining us this episode with Jill Chang. Jill’s book, Quiet Is A Superpower, is available in bookstores as well as Amazon Kindle can also find her on the Web, LinkedIn, and also Instagram InJillChang. That’s I-N-J-I-L-L-C-H-A-N-G.
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