Have you ever felt the need to pursue new interests? Considering entrepreneurship as a career path? And is it your dream to own your own business? Then you’ll want to hear from Lan Ho, founder of Fat Miilk.
We previously interviewed Lan Ho for our podcast, where she talked about her company. But we didn’t really dive into the details of how she pivoted in life, away from a traditional career, a stable career, in pharmacy. We’ll hear more about these in this interview with Francis Kong, who spoke with Lan Ho at the Imagine Talks 2021 symposium.
Lan Ho is a Vietnamese-American entrepreneur, board-certified pharmacist, and Miss Asian Global 1st Princess 2020. As an accomplished formulator, she is the creator behind a sustainable personal care brand launching later this year and the founder of Fat Miilk; a direct-trade Vietnamese coffee company sourced ethically from Vietnam. You can find Lan in Daily Coffee News, Gazelle Magazine, Trillest, Fodor’s, and most recently Bon Appétit. She is a proud daughter of immigrants and currently resides in Chicago, Illinois.
To learn more about Lan Ho:
- Instagram: @sheisthiis
- Facebook: Lan Ho
Learn more about Fat Miilk:
- Instagram: @fatmiilk
- Facebook: Fat Miilk
- For more information about Fat Miilk and to order its products online, visit FatMiilk.com
Below is our edited transcript of Lan Hos’s talk, “Focus and Alignment,” at the Imagine Talks Annual Symposium.
2020 Miss Asian Global First Princess— Lan Ho
Francis Kong: Here we are—Imagine Talks 2021. Welcome, Lan.
Lan Ho: Yes.
Francis Kong: You are, I believe, our 2020 Miss Asian Global First Princess.
Lan Ho: I am.
Francis Kong: Which is amazing.
Lan Ho: Yeah.
Francis Kong: And you came all the way out here to visit with us from Chicago.
Lan Ho: Yes.
Francis Kong: Thank you for making that trip.
Lan Ho: Of course. Thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited to be here.
Francis Kong: Can’t wait to hear your story. I’ve heard a bit about it. But just before I jump into some of the questions and some of your popular philosophies, can you tell us a bit about yourself? Where you came from? How this journey of yours got started? And from there, I love to see where all of these insights you have sprung from.
Lan Ho: Yeah, well, that’s a loaded question. But yeah, just to start, I was actually born here in the Bay Area.
Francis Kong: Really?
Lan Ho as an Asian-American growing up in the Midwest
Lan Ho: Yeah. So my family essentially grew up here—my siblings and I. My parents met in Oakland, California—raised here until I was about five [or] six years old, and then we moved to St. Louis, Missouri. So [I] grew up in the Midwest—humble beginnings, for sure. And I think just like any other Asian-American first generation, I think I kind of mimic the story of, you know, family expectations and hard-working parents who really just want their children to be successful...
Francis Kong: Right.
Lan Ho: And have a secure job.
Lan Ho: And I think that really influenced me growing up and the career choices that I made. And I think that had a ripple effect into kind of going in that direction, kind of rebelling in that direction and then where I am today.
Francis Kong: Wow.
Lan Ho: Yeah.
Francis Kong: OK.
Francis Kong: Now and from that direction, you eventually went down the path and you became a PharmD, right?
Making the decision to become a Doctor of Pharmacy
Lan Ho: Yes, Doctor of Pharmacy.
Francis Kong: Well, OK. And that’s no small feat. That’s a lot of studying and schooling right there.
Lan Ho: Yes, it is.
Francis Kong: So, when you were on this path, even as early as the high school undergrad going into there and I knew I'm thinking a lot of this was also cultural and expectations from [the] society and also family. But was there ever—did you ever feel completely aligned with it or was this probably something tugging at you inside?
Francis Kong: It goes like, “I am not sure I’m totally in line with this right now.”
Lan Ho: Yeah. I think, you know, when you’re young, you kind of your parents are big—at least my parents were a huge influence on me. And so I think I did everything that I thought, you know, would lead me up to success. And I think throughout that entire process, I was always, always curious, like you know, it was always like, OK, I’m doing academia, I'm going through the process of getting these degrees, et cetera. But during that process, it was always something that I questioned.
It’s just like, OK, “I’m doing this. But is this really something that I’m passionate about? Is this something that is going to be ‘it’ for me? for the rest of my life.” So, yeah, I mean, there’s so many things I stay curious and there’s always a bunch of, you know, just interest and other skills that I really wanted to hone in—that kind of tug at my time and my energy. And so, yeah.
Entrepreneurship: a pivot in Lan Ho’s career
Francis Kong: So during that journey, and especially when you got your PharmD, was there a tipping point in that curiosity—that tugging of yours inside that just push you to a point where you’re like, “I need to sit back and have a look at what I'm doing in my life right now.” And when exactly was then? How did that emerge and make itself known in your presence?
Lan Ho: You know, I think there wasn’t an exact tipping point. I think I always knew what kind of woman I wanted to be, I knew the kind of influence I wanted to have on young women, I knew the kind of causes that I wanted to represent and spend my time doing. So I think throughout that process, it was always a question. And I think to answer your question, like the biggest thing that probably tugged me was just—purpose, right? Like, finding my purpose and finding fulfillment and where I spent my time and my energy.
And so that was always a constant internal battle with me. Yeah. And I think at one point, once you continue to spend all your energy having that constant ‘tug of war’ in your mind and in your heart, eventually at some point when the time come[s] and the circumstances present itself, I feel like that's when—I think that’s like my biggest message is like when those circumstances come to really trust yourself and have the self-confidence to believe in yourself just, you know, to take that step.
Francis Kong: Right.
Lan Ho: Yeah.
Thinking outside the box with entrepreneurship side hustles
Francis Kong: And one of the things you’ve also told me—last time I remember was one thing that always drove you to this very day—was that your strong sense of just—curiosity, right? As being curious about things outside of what you were formally studying. So how big of a factor is curiosity in the focus of you transitioning from being a PharmD into being an entrepreneur of two companies right now? How much was curiosity a foundation for that?
Lan Ho: I think it was huge. I think even when I'm in my day-to-day job—9 [am] to 5 [pm] as a pharmacist. Throughout that entire process was always curiosity here. I’m always thinking, “Where else should I—what else should I be doing? What other skills can I try to really have a lighter fulfillment?”
So it was huge. I feel like people— I’m just in my mind, I’m just like always super curious about how—what's the next step?
Francis Kong: Was there any direction in your curiosity that you just want to try everything? Or was there a certain theme in curiosity like, “Yeah, I’m curious about that, but... only if it has an impact or some sort of a link into this area.” Was there a certain funnel that you're crossing, that you always gotten you towards?
Lan Ho: No.
Francis Kong: It’s everything out there.
Starting the coffee company—Fat Miilk
Lan Ho: Yeah. I mean, I blog—I started a retail women’s clothing company. I obviously wanted to do—Vietnamese coffee and that obviously came to me. So Fat Miilk—a Vietnamese coffee company that I launched about three months ago.
But prior to that, I conceptualized this idea years ago, I actually incorporated it last year, but only made small increments to actually launching the company [to] where it is right now—today. On top of that, I’m about to launch another company with my pharmaceutics professor.
It’s a personal care tableting kind of approach to how we use our everyday toiletries. So I think, you know, for me, I just enjoy relationships.
I enjoy building those. Yeah. Just meaningful relationships and actually being able to do something of substance. So I think I wouldn’t say like there’s just one genre of curiosity that I have. Like, it's not like just mainly tech or just mainly beauty or whatever the case is. It's kind of all the real place. And I think that’s one of the most important things that I want to do—things that I want to do. I just want to do things that I love and trust me.
And it makes no rhyme or reason. And I think for a lot of very perfectionists—young, first-generation people—you always want to have like a timeline of things that make sense your life: get your PharmD and then work. Yeah, have like a rhyme or reason. And I think, after a while, I got over the idea of having to make sense of everything and I was just like,
“Screw it. I’m just going to start this coffee company that... makes no sense in my life whatsoever with where I was prior to that.”
Entrepreneurship: Trusting your instincts or believing yourself?
But I loved it, I’m interested in it—I’m a huge fan of coffee. And I think when you exert your love and your passion into things, you see the fruits of your labor.
Francis Kong: Absolutely. And a little something else that I want to touch on here is that you got the point where [you were], like, “Screw it, just going to do this.” That obviously has a certain level of gut feeling and instinct, right? So did you always have a sense of trust in your instincts and your honing-in instincts?
And how important was trusting and really listening to your inner voice or you in terms of this particular dream?
Lan Ho: Yeah, I—no, I mean to answer your question—absolutely not. I did not trust my instincts—when you’re young, I almost feel like you have to grow into your instincts. I think probably within the last year or two is when I really started to reflect on myself and believe that anything that I want out of life—I’m the only one that’s going to be able to make that happen, right?
So I think it was very intentional with the way that I kind of trained my mind, and what I expose myself to, and who I met and those relationships that I curated—all those things and those opportunities came, right? And that's when I really started trusting my instincts because—one, I’m sure part of it is love, and the other part is the universe just telling you, “Here’s an opportunity.”
Almost manifested it throughout your life and then at some point you really have to, like, pull the trigger and just be like, “Yes.”
Francis Kong: The sense of timing.
Lan Ho: Yes. I’m just going to go for it. And it makes sense so.
Coping with the risks of entrepreneurship
Francis Kong: So how did you deal with that sense and that fear of risk involved? Because when you—even though you have that curiosity and you learn all this knowledge and then get to a point where you're—you finally start listening to your guts and your instincts telling you, “OK, this is the time to do it, it’s now or never.” Right? How did you get past the fear of—this is super risky.
Lan Ho: Yeah.
Francis Kong: “This is—this could end my entire stable career.” And not only that, “But where am I going to have—where’s my social standing with my family after this.” Right? So how did you deal with the fear of just that risk—just moving over you?
Lan Ho: I don’t think you ever really deal with it, right? I mean, I don’t really ever get over it.
It's more so like, how do you cope with that risk? There's always going to be a risk—I think about that all the time. And I think I’m privileged in the sense that I say, “if I take this risk and I fail—my plan B, it’s a six-figure salary.” Right? Like I—and I'm blessed to be able to say that. But at the same time, I worked my ass off to be able to have a doctorate’s degree and have that as a plan B, right?
Protecting the dream of starting a small business
But I think the second thing also was in my mind and in my heart, I was just so annoyed with myself because I just knew I wanted to do all these things. And it’s more so like, “Stop talking about it.” Like, “Stop telling yourself you're going to do it one day and just like do it because that feeling is never going to go away.” So for me, like to mitigate that risk, it was just—I mean, I always seek to my own happiness above all.
So my risk —if I fail or win or whatever, I’ll pick myself back up. It’s not that big of a deal.
Francis Kong: So I’m going to ask you this question, Lan. As you were coming down, that transition—[that] inflection point in your life, I’m assuming that you didn't come where this is planned to your mom and said, “Hey, this is how I'm transitioning out of my PharmD and I'm going to open a coffee shop.” I'm assuming that you had a plan of first this and then—then tell them. So how did you plan that— how did you—what was the—what and why was the plan that you had put in place to make this thing safest for you?
Lan Ho: You know, I think the biggest thing is that you always have to protect your dream. And I tell people that all the time. So I didn’t have a plan to come out [with] all of these ideas and trust that I have because I have a lot.
Maintaining a sense of balance in life
And so I think going up to your parents and saying, “Hey, I want to do this and I want to do this and do blah blah blah,” it’s honestly just going to stress them the heck out. So for me, I—and it’s still in the works, but it’s kind of like a slow progression of where—how I transitioned through it. In terms of pharmacy, I am going back to pharmacy specifically to administer COVID vaccines.
Francis Kong: Wow.
Lan Ho: Yeah.
Francis Kong: On top of all of this.
Lan Ho: On top of all of this, I was—there’s a huge recruitment of pharmacists right now (inaudible) to vaccinate the population. So I feel like as someone who holds this degree and has a skillset—in the certification. It’s my duty to go out and still do that. And also I still utilize it to some degree. So it’s not like, “Hey, I’m totally done with this and I’m doing all these other things.” It’s more so just finding that balance, but just doing things more so because you want to and not because you really have to.
Francis Kong: Yeah. I love that.
And so you’re not going back to pharmacy— at least partially pharmacy, because it’s first of all (inaudible) because it is the socially responsible thing to do.
Lan Ho: Yes.
Francis Kong: That’s very cool. Now, this also— with all these concepts of curiosity, trust your instincts and risk also played a huge part in you becoming part of Miss Asian Global pageant.
Lan Ho: Yes
Francis Kong: Right? So were you ever involved in the pageant prior to this?
Lan Ho: No.
Trusting your instincts and taking risks in entrepreneurship
Francis Kong: And so how did the curiosity and instincts and risk play a part of your life? “Well, screw it, I’m gonna do this too!”
Lan Ho: No. Absolutely. I think that’s a very interesting story. So I did not grow up in pageant life. I had no idea really how to navigate that industry in that world. And at the time when I was [a] still full-time pharmacist, again, working on—watching all of these projects that I had, I actually saw a post by Rose Chung, the founder of Miss Asian Global. She posted on Asian Hustle Network—so shout out to that awesome network. But she posted something about this pageant going virtual.
It’s all about women empowerment and adaptability, resilience, and those keywords just naturally resonated with me. And so it caught my eye and my attention and I think it was like four days before the deadline of the pageant. I was like I texted my sisters, like the website: “Do you guys think I should do this?” Like, you know, I'm about to launch all these companies bla blah blah and I really want to get uncomfortable like that was kind of like my thing—
It was like totally out of my comfort zone—something I’ve never have even entertained prior to being virtual. But I just know that, why not? I mean, I’m already taking a risk in my career and all these things. Why not take a risk in my personal life? And my personal brand or advancement or whatever.
Lan Ho’s leap into entrepreneurship
And yeah, so it just the way that it happened, the way that I saw it and how I met the deadline right at the cusp and just that whole process with the criteria and everything that I said, it was just perfect.
So I applied and participated and it was probably one of the best experiences of my life.
Francis Kong: I’m so happy, so happy to hear that. So what has transitioning from an academic health care professional into an entrepreneur and also now a beauty pageant titleholder? How is —what does this taught you in 2020? Coming in—now 2021—but what was old Vy like and what is new Vy like right now. Oh not Vy—Lan. To any of you girls out there that I have to interview. What is new Lan like?
Lan Ho: It just— it just taught me, you know, you’re never going to see the reward until you take a rest.
And I think when I look back in 2020, one of the biggest things for my life and I think for a lot of people who obviously went through this pandemic, you know, you have a certain set of circumstances and it's just a matter of what you make out of that. I think 2020 was one of the most—craziest years for me ever—I joined the beauty pageant, I launched a career, I made a career change, and now that it’s 2021—look at the direction that I’ve carved out for myself. So I think I’m just finally stepping in to the woman that I’ve always wanted to be. And I think I made those risks and those decisions back in 2020 to set me up for today.
Entrepreneurship: Advice for start-ups
Francis Kong: What advice would you give to new small businesses—startups, that are coming into this whole brand new economy? So you did something amazing. You’re planning on launching your two companies and then COVID hit and sort of going, “OK, well, I guess this is not happening.” You’re like, “Alright—pivot.” and it’s even more successful than them. And you could've imagine at this point, which is amazing, you went to a pageant and won—with the top three titles, which is amazing. So what advice you would give people who are trying to figure out how to reinvent themselves and take a huge step—trusting your instincts, taking that risk, base on curiosity to start. So, what advice would you give them?
Lan Ho: You know, I think —I don't know, I mean this sounds really cheesy, but I would just say—just do it, you know what I mean? Like I think if any—if 2020 taught us anything—it's that nothing is certain and anything can happen, you know? So these are the things I've always wanted to do.
With entrepreneurship, trust yourself
And I think I just reached a point where the world would just so scary. And I think if you have an idea and you have a small business and you want to grow it in some way —or fashion or whatever the case is and you're scared about it, don't be. Because if there a we— I mean, I think we saw the worst in 2020.
I think if anything —to have that confidence in yourself and that resilience—trust yourself in that process a little bit more because I truly feel that anyone who takes a risk has the guts to bounce back from whatever happens and just do it. I mean, you feel like it's ever really going to go away.
Francis Kong: Like, just a little bit of time in the present, right?
Lan Ho: Yeah, but just do it—life's too short.
Francis Kong: I love that.
Lan Ho: Yeah.
Francis Kong: So that's all [the] time we have here. Thank you so much for coming all the way from Chicago and visiting us. I hope the next time we meet in 2022, we have a much more (inaudible). And thank you again for representing Miss Asian Global as its first princess, and being such a top role model in terms of its public health as well as [the] entrepreneurship community.
Thank you. Thank you so much for your big platform to share my story and continue to be a representative for women in business.
Francis Kong: That’s sweet. Take care. Talk again to you soon.
Lan Ho: Thank you.
Francis Kong: Buh-bye
Lan Ho: Bye.
Join the mailing list: Get a series of Mental Power Hacks each week, and get the free guide to performance hacks.